ToothDoc

Something is off... I know that the exhaust alone is good for 2/10s at the strip which Caymandive has pretty much shown. It seems the headers are good for another 2-3/10s. Don't know what else to say besides keep on running the car - if it's running richer but getting the same HP, at least you know that running leaner will give you more HP.

JDKane527

iTrader: (10)

I bet it's the Tom's Filter...
Try OEM and waiting for the exhaust to break in and the ECU to reteach itself.

sweetbird

iTrader: (2)

well my dear first mistake was spending money on a honda! wtf would you spend 2k on for a honda? a set of heads to gain 5hp and go a 14 in the 1/8th? lol! im with you on making you car special and diffrent im just saying i would have been pissed if i spent 2k on parts and gained 0hp.

PurduePete

Okay, you got me there Sweetbird. I didn't have money for a nicer car back in 1998.....lol. It was a learning experience to say the least. In the end, I was so pissed off after trying out every bolt-on there is from MDS, to Injen, to Greddy, to Tanabe, to AEM that I forked out another $3K for a Jackson Racing supercharger + another $1.2K for installation to gain exactly 40hps. All together, it was about $8K for 40 hps.....

Now 10 year later and after all that experience, when I mod anything to the F, it's strictly to make my F different and to my liking. If hp gains are impressive then it's just icing on the cake. I no longer view any bolt-on hp mods with "big" expecations. I save the big hp hopes only for force induction.

Poster, sorry if my post was inflammatory, wasn't the intent from the beginning. I just think there is some other variable that is the cause and not your bolt-ons.

ISFC6

For the one calling me immature, I sure would have a few words for you, but will be MATURE about it, since it appears that you do not have an understanding about these issues. You cannot compare a Honda motor to ours, as they barely respond to exhaust and intake mods, unlike the ISF. Here are more facts:

1) Everything was installed by a Toyota Master Certified Technician who worked at a Lexus dealership with over 25 years of experience and now works at a Toyota dealership. He also builds Pro Alchohol drag race cars.

2) Yesterday, before going back to redyno the car, I went back to the dealership to recheck the installation (bolts, flanges, check for leaks, etc...). He said that all was well.

3) The ECU resets the parameters with mileage and cycles as well. In the JOEZ intake instructions, it states that the ECU takes around 200 miles for it to relearn itself.

4) I drove around 250 miles, but in several drives, and varied the RPM's with several WOT runs.

5) The best basis for comparison is what I did, which is to obtain the baseline dyno and dyno after modifications in the SAME dyno. Going to another one would be inconsistent, and I would have no baseline dynos on another dyno machine.

The internet was down lat night, and I am waiting for the dyno operator to e-mail me the graph.

JOEZ, if you would like, I can provide you with the contact information for the dyno shop, and the information for the technician that performed the installation, but I can assure you that everything was installed correctly, and even rechecked yesterday. Everything is tight, and there are no air leaks.

All that I want is to see the gains that are advertised. I am more than willing to let you come down here to Central cali to look at the car yourself.

Many here are running the Tom's air filter with your products, and how could the Tom's filter be inhibiting the 25RWHP SAE and 20 RWTQ that I should have gained?

PS: If there is another variable, I sure welcome JOEZ to help me and uravel the mystery, if there is one in this case.

pgoffner

iTrader: (1)

Were you looking for the word "premature"? I think that was what you were trying to say right? No disrespect was intended I'm sure...

PurduePete

ISFC6
Man, you are taking what I wrote wayyy out of context. just read it again, especially this part, "Poster, sorry if my post was inflammatory, wasn't the intent from the beginning. I just think there is some other variable that is the cause and not your bolt-ons."

And no, I am not comparing your F to a honda. It was meant for Sweetbird..... Please do yourself a favor and just ignore my post and move on. I only meant to tell you that something is wrong.....that's it bro.

PurduePete

Thank you pgoffner....

ISFC6

OK, apology accepted. However you want to call it, results are results, and cannot be disputed. Please read my post above and the original carefully. ALL variables are the same. Same dyno, same shop, same correction factor (SAE 5), 1:1 ratio, Traction control competely off and on Sport mode, et... ALL was the same, with no variables. This time around, it was even around 20 degrees cooler. I will post the dyno sheet as soon as I have it available electronically, as all that I have now is a hard copy.

Supraman16

iTrader: (5)

Here are my guesses:

1. Tom's Filter: There have been several dyno's tests, including my own, that shows a power loss with everything other than the stock air filter. Chances are that the MAF is sensing too much intake/airflow and compensating (thus causing you to run richer).

2. Improper installation of the O2 Sensors: The IS-F 02 sensors are tricky and improper installation can result in a broken 02 sensor and by default, the ECU running richer. But you stated the person who installed it was a master Toyota Tech so this is less likely, but still should be considered.

3. I've noticed that it takes about 3 to 4 gas tanks worth of driving for the ECU to fully compensate for new changes. 250 miles I can with a certain degree of certainty say is not enough for the ECU to adapt to new changes.

The JoeZ Intake and Exhaust are modifications done past the MAF, so other than improving airflow and back pressure, the ECU won't even know anything was done to the car. On the other hand, the Tom's Airflow alters the amount of airflow that the MAF can sense and thus compensate for.

I think the best thing to do would be to put back the stock air filter, drive around for at least 3 tank fulls worth of driving and redyno...Darshana S...

familycar

did the shop change their calibration settings at all over that month? i had that happen to me. the numbers made it look like i lost 50hp after quiet a few mods on a different car, but in reality i made 75whp/tq

caymandive

iTrader: (2)

Assuming the install went perfectly and the O2 sensors weren't damaged you can rest assured you have the additional power. Unfortunately dyno testing isn't perfect as others here have pointed out. I can tell you that your numbers on the dyno (even SAE corrected) will be different almost every day on the same dyno even with the same mods, same fuel, same cool downs, etc. It basically sounds to me like the dyno was really on your side for your baseline. Really the only way you will find out and assure yourself is to put the stock exhaust back on and go back, but do it soon.

As for the Toms filter, i'm sure you are fine with it in the car, but from my experiences nothing beats the stock filter. I recently tested the AFE filter and gained/lost ZERO hp to a used stock filter.

One last comment. I don't believe you need much time for the ECU to adjust itself to a mod before you dyno test it. I've reset the ECU before at the track and the initial run right after resetting I did horrible, but the following run I was back to where I was prior to resetting. Another example is my initial header testing. Within the same day, I did a baseline right before the install, installed the headers, drove them hard for about 5 miles and retested. We gained over 40whp then and I continue showing a gain of 40whp even after several hundred and several thousand miles later.

ISFC6

Hi Cayman, I agree with you, it would not take long for the PCM to adjust itself, as you have pointed out. As yourself, many have installed mods, and immediately redynoed for gains. Regarding the possibility of the 02 sensors being installed incorrectly, I do not think that is a possibility. Even if so, wouldn't a check engine light come on, if this were the case? The dyno was calibrated in the same manner as the baseline runs were. The Tom's filter came highly recommended from both Clark at VIP and JOEZ. Most here that I have seen do run this filter, coupled with the JOEZ intake and exhaust. I will post the dyno sheet as soon as I receive it.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

James,

I understand your frustration, but I think your sort of went about this the wrong way.

Throughout the entire process since the beginning of this year, where you sent me numerous PM's about exhaust purchasing, inquires, details, install quotes, how to install, emails with Vip Auto, shipment issues, etc.. etc..
We have been there all the way for you each time, with great communication.

I guess what I am trying to say is that I was a PM or Email away, in helping you with any issues.

To be quite honest with you, I do not ever recall "highly recommending" any filters.
All I stated was that all of our independent dyno tests were done with the oem filter.
Most of the independent members dyno test here, were also done with the oem filter.
We even had IS-F members lose rwhp, because of certain drop in filters.

I welcome you to read ALL of the posts in these threads.

Independent DYNO Proven results by "Caymandive" - no BS here!!

JoeZ Exhaust + Intake Dyno = +26 RWHP +19 RWTQ SAE

Joe Z Intake and Exhaust Results - 383 rwhp SAE


You can see these members also experienced dyno issues, but ultimately the gains were there.

To set the record straight in this thread, I in no way would ever manufacture or design a performance product that produces “NO POWER GAINS..”

My honest opinion is that you only drove your IS-F for 250 miles in 6 weeks.
Usually, you want to get a baseline dyno, install the mods, drive the car for at least a good week or two everyday and then go back for a re-dyno.

I am not sure what your commute is like, but I drive 70 miles a day which comes out to 1,400 miles a month.
Two weeks is about 700 miles and approx on my 3rd tank of gas.

I can not tell you what exactly happened with your dynos and I can not tell you why your experiencing this issue..
What I can tell is that our products are 100% dyno proven, many times over and over.

My suggestion would be to re-install all the stock parts and reset the ECU.
Go and get another baseline dyno.
Re-install Exhaust & Intake combo only.
Drive the car everyday for about 1-2 weeks to log at least 200-400 miles of daily driving.
Then finally go and get another dyno.

Other than the above, I can not give you any other suggestions as to what caused your dyno results.

I hope we can get this figured out for you quickly.

Best Regards as always,

Joe Z

ISFC6

Joe, I am just trying to get the opinion of others here, since this is a public forum, and see if anyone experienced the issue that I am. I knew that you would read this, and would respond. I know that you are very busy and can sometimes take a while to respond to PM's, and I knew that I could get some opinions here quicker before you could respond; especially because I do not have a phone number that I can contact you.

I am being very polite, non-offensive, but just like every customer, I want to get what I paid for, and that is it, nothing more or less.

The reason that I purchased the Tom's filter is because you recommended it on a PM to me on 02/17/10, mentioning that it works well in conjunction with your intake, and also on a post that you posted on one of my threads, not to mention Clark's same recommendation at VIP. I only purchased that filter, which is very costly, because it came recommended by both of you. Please refer to your PM and post on the thread.

You are correct, we have been communicating for a while, and I have always been satisfied with your service and professionalism, so no complaints there. This is the reason that I purchased your products, not to mention the results from the threads that you posted.

I am not disputing the validity of the gains that others have obtained, and many with no miles for the PCM to relearn, but what I am stating is that in my case, I did not obtain any gains at all, not even minimal ones, and as others have posted dyno sheets, I also have them as well, and with all of the same variables in place, with the post modification dyno runs being more favorable, because the weather was around 20 degrees cooler, although SAE usually corrects for these variances.

What distinguishes a reputable vendor and builder from a non reputable one, is how they handle a transaction after the sale, when things do not go as promised or advertised, which is unfortunately the situation that I am in right now as we speak. I hope and am quite confident that you will provide me with a resolution.

As I previously mentioned, I welcome all of your assistance and support in troubleshooting whatever the issue may be, but at this point, I do not feel that it should be at my expense, because what I have is factual data that in my case, I experienced no power gains. Everything that you provided me with (instructions, pointers, resetting the ECU) was followed to a tee.

I would have to pay $220.00 to put the car back to stock, $75.00 back to the dyno, $220.00 to reinstall, and another $75.00 to redyno. So $590.00 in addition to what I have already spent, and much more time involved, and imagine if I am back at square one again, with no guarantee? This would make no sense to me. I baselined the car stock, installed the mods, drove around 250 miles in several drive cycles, and went back. All variables being the same. I already dynoed the car stock, so no use in putting it back to stock, and dynoing it again. We have both stock and modified numbers, and I made sure that all variables remained the same (same dyno, shop, gas, ratio, all the same). If I had baselined in one dyno, and then redynoed after mods at another shop, then all bets would be off.

Case in point. If you bought a power washer rated at 2400 PSI, brought it home, and it had no water pressure. What would you do? Surely return it. If you got to the store, and they told you that nothing could be wrong, because it worked for the last 100 customers. You would say, great for them, but not for me. What if they told you to troubleshoot it yourself (at your own expense), instead of returning your money for example, or fixing it for you to operate at the promised 2400 PSI?

My point is that great cars can sometimes have a lemon in the middle of a few; products sometimes may not work as designed due to manufacturing tolerances or issues with production, etc...

What I need help with at this point is troubleshooting whatever issue may be in place. There is no issue with the car, because the stock numbers were healthy. The fact still remains the same for me, which is that I experienced no power gains when I should have, and that we can all agree upon.

The dyno operator in an attempt to comfort me said that at least it sounded good, and while I agreed, I told him that I would never pay this kind of money for sound alone, if I knew beforehand that I would have no performance gains. If this were the case, would have just gone the cheap route, and hacked on the stock exhaust, which I did not. How do You think that I felt when the dyno numbers were displayed on the monitor? I honestly fel that my eyes had gone bad on me, but we did a total of 4 runs after the modifications with the same, if not worst results than the baseline 3 runs.

Maybe you can speak with the dyno operator and installer, to ask any questions that my lead you to a possible answer?

I know what you mean about other cars gaining the power, but unfortunately, mine was not one of them, and that is factual in my case, so we need to find out why, and correct the issue.

I hope that you can appreciate my frustration that I spent all of this money, and in my case, experienced no power gains. Unfortunately what others have experienced does not apply to the results that I obtained.

My car is not a daily driver, so I did not have the opportunity to log many miles all at once. It did go through many cycles. In your instructions for the Intake tube, it takes the PCM takes 200 miles to adjust parameters. As others have experienced with several cars and mods, and have performed dynos almost immediately after mods, the gains are there, regardless of miles. For instance, when I had my Corvettes, they baselined the car, then installed headers, then immediately redynoed, and the gains were there right inline with manufacturers claims.

All that I am asking is your assistance and support to provide me with the power gains that are advertised and promised, but I do not feel that it should be at my expense.

Like I previously mentioned, I even went back to the dealership, to have them check everything over again, before heading over to obtain the post dyno runs, just to ensure that all was well.

You can come to my location, not unreasonably far from where you are, look everything over, and help me out. That would be greately appreciated. I will even offer you a place to stay for the night, so you would have no lodging expenses as a good will gesture to help you out as well. With winter approaching, this could possible be the best solution, and would save us weeks or possibly months of aggravation, as I want to get this matter resolved quickly, so that we can all move on, and for me to eventually start to enjoy the power that others are with the same mods. Thanks.

PS: I still have not received the post dyno sheet electronically. If I do not get it soon, I will have to scan my hard copy and post it.