lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Taking Joe's analysis a little further - you removed a significant restriction from the exhaust and saw no performance increase. This tends to point to an intake issue since everything does start with the intake and any fault or failure here will impact the entire system. I agree with Joe about the air cleaner. Put the OEM filter back in for testing. Also - is the charcoal filter still in place? Any other mods done to the intake? Are you 100% certain the MAF sensor was not damaged on install - Lexus is very specific about even a simple drop being potentially damaging to the MAF sensor?

Everything - lack of power increase and unusually rich - points to poor MAF calibration. On the other end of this is the O2 sensors. There are four. The two controlling AFR are in the OEM header. Are you absolutely certain they are undamaged, have not been contaminated with a foreign material (like a silicone sealer), and that the air holes which are supposed to be open to atmosphere are actually clean and clear?

Have you run any OBD tests to look for soft codes, especially the emissions NOT READY code indicating the ECM has not completed all its checks?

Last but not least, as previously mentioned, ask the shop if they've upgraded their software/firmware since the initial dyno session, and do some independent checks to make sure their temperature, barometer, and humidity corrections are sound.

Any word on the raw data? Was the raw data showing a power increase? It should show a pretty healthy one if the temperature was 20 degrees cooler AND the barometer was at a similar level. If it doesn't show more power the issue is even bigger than no increase, it's actually a decrease and there's something desperately wrong with your car.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

Another thing I don't understand is why your Dyno operator is cooling the car down between runs...

Even your base number of 352 was after a 13 minute cool down directly followed by a 341 run with no cool down.
While your 1st run was 348 after a 20 minute cool down..

Just dynoed my bone stock 09 ISF with only 2,400 miles...

The way I have seen these Dynojets work best is the following:

1) 1st run gets thrown because its pretty much a safety spin and warm up run.

2) 2nd run numbers are usually where the data begins

3) 3rd run numbers are usually more inline with true numbers

4) by the 4th & 5th run, numbers begin to decrease due to heat soak and fatigue.

Here in Cali with our 91 octane fuel, base IS-F's have seen 333 rwhp bone stock and with exhaust have easily seen 355 rwhp..

Case in point, our independently tested IS-F by the staff at SP Engineering.

We threw out all the cool down runs and only used the more solid normal operating temp dyno runs..
Which for us was the 355 rwhp number.

Completed R&D on PTS Dual Exhaust System Joe Z series & Joe Z Intake for IS-F

See Post #39

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDNHJ2Cvr34


I'm just posting my thoughts as they come to me..
But, I also strongly feel your IS-F will have to be re-dyno'd in a much better format than it has been..

Joe Z

JMBillsta

iTrader: (6)

ISFC6 sorry to hear about your disappointments in your aftermarket parts. though you may not see the power gains on paper, has the sound and performance of the parts met your expectations? who cares about numbers.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

That wiring is very tricky, the slighest tension will threw off the readings, but not enough to throw a CEL..

Per your request, I have sent you my contact number.

Also, in order to load the graph it has to be Jpeg file.. If you scanned into your computer, save it as a Jpeg and reload it into your post..

Either way I was able to see the data and yes your F is runing pretty rich, even in your base numbers..

Regards,

Joe Z

ISFC6

Joe, I will have to reschedule an appointment at the dealer, and will let you know the date and time, so that you are able to take the call when the tech calls you, while the car is there. There are surely dyno variances, but for this reason, I went to the same dyno for my baseline and for the post modifications. No matter what the numbers were for the baseline, I was expecting the usual gains that have been posted here in the Forum (around 25 RWHP for the exhaust and another 5 RWHP SAE or so for the intake). I was truly hoping to see the first run post mods numbers close to 380 RWHP SAE and ind the mid 360's RWTQ SAE, and I know the the numbers get lower on subsequent dynos due to heat soak. For these purposes, you can compare run 1 to 4, run 2 to 5 and run 3 to run 6, as they all correspond to each other from stock to modded. Run 7 was just one last attempt to truly verify that the gains were not there on my car.

ISFC6

1) Besides the JOEZ intake and Tom's filter, nothing else was changed on that end. Charcoal filter is still in place. I do not believe that the MAF is even removed for what was installed?

2) I do not have the means to run an OBD test, as I cannot take the car to Lexus for diagnosis, since it would not be covered under warranty, due to the mods.

3) The software and firmware of they dynojet remains the same.

4) I posted the dyno graphs.

5) I could remove the Tom's filter, but countless here have used it in conjuction with Joe's products with no issues, and no affect on power. Could the filter alone be preventing me from seeing any of the gains that I should have?

As I mentioned to Joe, I will take the car back to the delaership that performed the install, and have them call him to try and work this out. Thanks for all of those how have helped.

Joe Z

iTrader: (10)

^^ No problem James, that's why we are all here....

Although members are using the filter, I have not personally dyno tested a Tom's unit, nor have I seen any dyno's for one...
So keep that in mind for the time being..

We have had a few reports of other drop in filters having adverse affects on the IS-F.
Which has been documented on various different dyno's.

Also, the Exhaust will have an approx 20 rwhp gain alone, while the Intake will have an approx 5 rwhp gain alone.

Combined one will see gaines that will be in 20-25 rwhp range.

The Engine Air Filter swap out, should take you a whole 5 minutes if your handy inside the engine bay.

Regards,

Joe Z

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Removed, no, but possibly damaged, absolutely. It doesn't take much to screw one up so it is no longer accurate.

The EMISSIONS READY is easily read by any OBDII scanner. You don't need Lexus, you just need a scanner. They are as cheap as $50 and are invaluable for diagnosing problems.

OK.

The dyno graphs you posted are useless for this comparison. I'm talking the RAW numbers - no SAE correction.

You are troubleshooting. This means use a well known configuration then add variables back until you observe the same issue. It's not fun, but it's the only way to do this and find out what the real culprit is. The fundamental tuning rule is ONE CHANGE AT A TIME because you'll never figure out what caused (or fixed) your issue if you are making multiple changes all at once.

This doesn't sound good. Dealerships are not the best place to have this kind of work completed. They're expensive and not very motivated to resolve the issues. I'm keenly aware of how dealership mechanics are paid, and if they're not logging 2 hours for every hour worked, they're losing money. This means every hour spent troubleshooting is at 50% pay (or less), so there is very little incentive to actually fix problems and a lot of incentive to replace expensive parts en masse to save time. Best of luck with this approach, but I have my doubts it will end well.

ISFC6

Lobux, I will try to obtain the uncorrected STD dyno sheets, if this is what you are referring to. All of the mods were installed a at a dealership, due to my concern for liability issues. There is no one in this area that I would trust to work on my car. I have complete trust in the tech that installed the material. He used to work for Lexus, but left the dealership when ownership changed. He works now at a Toyota dealership, and is a master certificed technician, and he also builds pro alcohol drag race cars, so he is used to high performance vehicles. I am sure that he would know not to damage the MAF.

Joe, another option would be for me to take a day trip to so cal, and have you look everything over at the shop of your choice, and perform a scan as well.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I grew up with race cars and have been building engines for more than 30 years. I also know better than to damage a MAF, but it doesn't mean I couldn't do it by accident even if I'm trying to be cautious. That's the point here - not casting doubt on the quality of the work, but acknowledging the possibility something went wrong and it got missed. It happens to all of us.

Just like doing a clutch job on a car you've done 7 or 8 times and the owner goes to back out of the garage - when you don't see the backup lights come on...yes, missed plugging in the switch, and of course I knew immediately what was wrong, but it didn't change the fact I missed it on the first pass...

ISFC6

True, you do have a point. No one is perfect, and things can be missed and overlooked. For this reason, I posted here asking for instructions and gathered as much information from Joe, before taking the car in, but eveyone said that it was literally so easy, that it could virtually not be messed up.

Lobux, I am happy that my car dynoed strong when stock (baseline runs 1 - 3), runs great, and never used any oil. If there were any issues with the car, they would have showed up in the original baseline runs, which they did not.

The post modifications dyno runs 4 - 7 were done in the same manner as the baseline runs 1 - 3, with obviously the car slightly cooling down for the first run for setting up, a slight cool down on one other run, and a back to back run. We just ran it a 4th time post mods, versus three runs like the first, just to verify that in my case for whatever reason the gains were not there. Of course I know that each subsequent run will read lower to heat soak, if there is no cool down. I am just looking for the gains, no matter what the car baseline at, the gains would need to be accounted over that amount. All dynos may read differently from one another, depending upon location, dyno type, weather, calibration, altitute, etc... But in my case, when you baseline in a dyno, and dyno again after mods in the same dyno, the expected gains need to show up over baseline, with all other variables besides the mods being the same, which they were in my case.

Joe, when I had my Corvettes and other high performance cars, the dyno operators in other locations have always let the car cool down for one run, and do back to back runs as well to see how the numbers were affected by either heat soak or by cool down. I have never seen anyone do 3 back to back runs. The important thing is to compare run to run in the same condition, cool down, and no cool down. In my case, run 1 to 4, 2 to 5, and 3 to 6, which still makes no difference in this case, because there were no gains.

From other members and your own threads, your exhaust and CAI will usually yield HP SAE numbers in the mid 370's and TQ in the mid 360's, of course depending upon the dyno, and what the car baselined at. Some have dynoed lower, and others higher, but the gains should be consistent from baseline to post mods, no matter what. With mine dynoing at 352, I was expecting numbers inline with the afformetnioned, which are the claimed combined gains in HP and TQ with the installation of your products.

At this point, I am seriously just considering taking a trip to so cal and having Joe take a look at things himself. This would save a lot of back and forth time, and aggravation, and cut to the chase, if you know what I mean. I have PM's Joe about this possibility. Nothing better than the actual person who helped design and bring these products to maekt look things over

infinus

My car runs rich with the Intake, filter, headers and exhaust. Maybe you got a bad tank of gas? Did you record timing?

ISFC6

AFR was recorded, but not timing. The car was baselined and post mods as well with 91 octane gas from Chevron.

sweetbird

iTrader: (2)

their is so much fail in this post! lol wtf are you talking about? if you spend money on a product you expect it to work, all he did was ask for help? what is so wrong with that?

sweetbird

iTrader: (2)

he is asking for help, and how did he start a **** storm? he posted the dyno charts showing no gain and is asking for help?