DLJ

Hey Guys,


I've been browsing throught the forums for several weeks now to see what this forum was about and I have to say that you guys are very knowledgeable. That said I have a few questions about the F.

Let me start off by saying that I definitely love what the F is about but I am also interested in the BMW M3. The fact that one is a sedan and the other is a coupe makes no difference. I know that with the M3, the cost of maintaining the vehicle can be pretty high, especially when you are talking about more than just a simple oil change. That's the nature of the beast when dealing with a German car. Of course, they offer programs that can defrey some of the costs on that.

That said is the F as expensive to maintain as the BMW? Will the fact that the F being a Japanese car make a huge difference?

I know you guys won't steer me wrong as far as that goes so any input you can add would really be nice.


Thanks guys!

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Who will be doing the work, you or a dealership or an independent?

DLJ

I'm not sure. I understand that the dealers are incredibly expensive but I may try to find an independent. Any words of advice?

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'm not much help there. I do everything myself.

I can say basically there isn't a lot to do other than oil changes, air filter changes (both cabin and engine), and basic inspection stuff. Brake wear is highly variable - some have had to do brakes as early as 20k miles, others have not. Tires might wear rapidly on the inside edges at the front or they may not. If they do, tires will be ~20k. If they don't, tires will be ~30k miles.

Sparkplugs, coolant, valve adjustments, and other expensive maintenance items are very long cycle, so there's no need to be worried about them at any inconvenient interval (unless you drive 30k+ miles per year, then you'll hit some of these things in year 3 or 4 of ownership.)

Brakes are not inexpensive. Lexus wants $400+ per rotor for the fronts and rears now. Pads from Lexus are obscenely priced but alternatives are available for a lot less. These prices do not include labor. Changing the brake pads is about the easiest of any street car I've ever owned, and the rotors will tolerate a lot of abuse before they're worn out.

There's not much else to mess with unless you want to risk hurting something. Some guys do change the differential oil. No one has changed their transmission fluid (AFAIK), and it's not intended to be changed. I plan to send a sample to Blackstone at 50k miles for analysis to determine if the OEM fluid is holding up to street and track duty.

DLJ

Thanks Racer for the info!

ToothDoc

I had mine for almost 3 years and so far I've changed windshield wiper blades and had like 4 oil changes at 100$/change (9 quarts of synthetic!!!), I changed the front pads but got OEM brembo pads from some place online for $300, I changed the air filter finally for $50 bucks. I'm still on OEM tires cuz I split the miles between winter tires/rims and summer tires/rims. I'm at 24K miles now. I've tracked the car a couple of times, went down a dragstrip a hundred times, drive it all winter long and do a lot of short 1 mile trips. So far so good.. Cost of ownership? Not too bad IMO.

malujerry

iTrader: (7)

gas and oil change, then tires and brakes should be your only "routine" maintenance. keep in mind 2 things...

1. that bmw maintenance program really only covers oil changes and top-offs - not gas, tires, brakes (which are expensive on both cars either way)
2. comparably equipped, the ISF is thousands less OTD. to me, the bmw's program doesn't not make financial sense in terms of "saving money". for example by window sticker, my $62k ISF was equivalent to a $69k M3 (metallic paint, extended leather, navigation, 19' wheels, convenience package, etc). so even if every oil change was $100, so then @ 4x/year x 4 years = $1600. that's barely more than the $1300 gas guzzler tax on the m3, not included on the above m3 price.

ToothDoc

Yeah, what Malujerry said... One other consideration was long term reliability - reliability AFTER warrantee expires and I feel with the IS-F I have a better chance. Oh, one more consideration is MPG. Even going straight off the EPA combined, the M3 is going to cost about 400$ more per year based on approx 15K miles a year. IMO, the IS-F is a whole level lower than an M3 in terms of operating cost.

DLJ

Based off of what I'm hearing then, you guys are using your cars as daily drivers and they're not just "garage queens". This is actually very useful info because mine will be a daily driver.

Coincidentally, my buddy owns a bimmer and recently had a mojor service done to it. I nearly **** my pants when he told me how much it set him back. His words to me were "its easy to afford the payments on the car, it's the f***ing maintenance you have to worry about."

That sucks!!

bnizzle87

i was debating whether the bmw program actually made sense at the time when i got my IS F. considering i'd be doing the routine maintenance work myself, it served no purpose to get suckered into this program. the gas guzzler was a major turnoff; it's like paying for one year of gas before even driving off the lot (est. 2 fill ups at $55 each/month). reliability-wise, i knew then and now that lexus would last awhle with no problems, meaning no nonsense in terms of maintaining the car for random repairs. with a high performance car, i have no doubt that the F's cost of ownership will be thousands less than the m3 over the course of ownership. but at the same time, i've seen some people who've ditched their m3 knowing their lease was up, so they wouldn't get stuck with the bill for major repairs.

jkeifer3

Only 9 quarts? My car took the full measure of two 5-qt containers of Mobil 1. I replaced the pads at 5k miles to reduce dusting but, other than that and a couple of $80 oil changes (I brought my own oil to the dealer), the maintenance costs have been non-existant.

uclachan

little more info on "free maintenance" program of BMW

they recently changed policy for whom gets "scheduled" free oil change. it's kinda complicated. i was reading BMW letter but wasn't quite sure but anyway. it's something like this.

before BMW will change your oil/filter either one year or 15,000 miles. yes. 15,000 miles. most people (including me) think about oil change every 5000 miles. but not BMW. so basically, 4 yrs and or 50,000 miles cover, you get to change 4 times at max. either way. but now with new policy, basically one year free oil change is eliminated. unless you drive less than 6000 miles within a year. if you drive 6001 miles in a year, you won't get an oil change.

i believe they change your brakes too. i haven't gone that far but i remember BMw covers brakes. (not sure about rotors either) the new policy didn't mentioned about brakes. only engine oil.

anyway, if you read the fine print, it's not so attractive.

i have to give a point for 1,200 miles break-in oil change / transmission and diff oil change. (for 6 manual) For M-DCT(automatic), you can only get engine oil change (and maybe diff oil) at 1200 miles. i owned 6 MT.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Most people don't know enough to know when to change their oil, and most people even when given all the proofs and evidence for less frequent OCI still believe more frequent is better.

I'll trust UOA to tell me when the oil needs to be changed. I won't trust some arbitrary number with no basis in how I use my car.

More than likely, BMW have it right at 15k miles. Does the OCI suddenly drop to a 5k recommendation when their maintenance plan expires?

ToothDoc

Actually, after reading your results from the past, I've been planning on changing once every 10K miles (once a year in my case).

qsz06

Racer, have you changed to synthetic oil? How many miles before you went to synthetic? Thinking about changing to it myself. I am at 23K .