We Test the PTS-Joe Z IS-F Exhaust and verify K&N intake power!
02-17-11, 05:52 PM
#46
Tech Info Resource
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That also means oil, air, and coolant. It's very hard to get them all tight. It's also the root of why the manufacturers were forced to change their claimed horsepower numbers - because without tight controls on these temps (and other parameters) your numbers will vary, and sometimes a lot over even a couple of runs.
I'm still a big fan of actual vehicle performance data, because that's what we all really want at the end of the day. If it consistently traps 1 mph faster, you know you did something right. Way back in the day I knew when I had my main jets right by trap speed. One too large, lose 4 mph. One too small, lose 4 mph...
I'm still a big fan of actual vehicle performance data, because that's what we all really want at the end of the day. If it consistently traps 1 mph faster, you know you did something right. Way back in the day I knew when I had my main jets right by trap speed. One too large, lose 4 mph. One too small, lose 4 mph...
02-17-11, 06:07 PM
#47
You might want to check this out.
http://www.bradbarnhill.com/projects/VirtualDyno/
I don't think they support Toyota. I sometimes use this for Subies and Evo's. It works really well for tuning.
http://www.bradbarnhill.com/projects/VirtualDyno/
I don't think they support Toyota. I sometimes use this for Subies and Evo's. It works really well for tuning.
02-17-11, 09:34 PM
#48
Well, I just ordered the K&N intake and I'll be going to the strip. I've gone to the strip enough times that I can pretty much predict what I'm going to run based solely on DA. Everytime I go, the car is pretty much consistent. If I am able to get 116 mph, I know I got some extra HP. If I trap 117 next time, I know that there really is a decent gain - this is based on a good -600 to -800 DA. On a crappy day (like +1000), if I get 114-115, I'm doing reallly well too. We'll find out later this fall - after I drive with it for a few thousand miles.
02-18-11, 08:47 AM
#50
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That also means oil, air, and coolant. It's very hard to get them all tight. It's also the root of why the manufacturers were forced to change their claimed horsepower numbers - because without tight controls on these temps (and other parameters) your numbers will vary, and sometimes a lot over even a couple of runs.
I'm still a big fan of actual vehicle performance data, because that's what we all really want at the end of the day. If it consistently traps 1 mph faster, you know you did something right. Way back in the day I knew when I had my main jets right by trap speed. One too large, lose 4 mph. One too small, lose 4 mph...
I'm still a big fan of actual vehicle performance data, because that's what we all really want at the end of the day. If it consistently traps 1 mph faster, you know you did something right. Way back in the day I knew when I had my main jets right by trap speed. One too large, lose 4 mph. One too small, lose 4 mph...
The most amazing part of MotoIQ's Dyno test's is that the car is NEVER TURNED OFF....
So all their Pre & Post Dynos are consistent..
The logic is that while they warm up the Engine & Drive train on the Dyno, to not turn off the car to create false cooler conditions..
^^ Which is GREAT in my book
Basically, between the Dyno pulls the Car is LEFT ON, in idle Drive mode and actually still rolling on the rollers...
This in turn allows the motor oil, coolant fluid, etc. to reach normal operating temps and stable conditions.
Simulating real word driving... (between runs)
I guess Mike has to bring is F to the track to confirm the confirmation.. LoL
We already have “Caymandive” pumping out the best 1/4 mile traps to date, for N/A application.
With Header & Exhaust bolt-ons. Keep in mind he is running the stock airbox..
Regards,
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 02-18-11 at 08:52 AM.
02-18-11, 10:28 AM
#51
Yes in our experience testing late model cars, you have to do this to get consistent results.
The highest readings usually can be had if you wanted to "cheat" (this is not really cheating but create results that might be hard for someone else to duplicate) would be to drive the car on the highway for about 15-20 minutes, come in, put the car on the dyno, turn on the fans for about 15-20 minutes, divert air to the intake with another fan then start your pulls. The second or third pull will usually have a really good result.
We warm up the drivetrain by driving on the dyno rollers under load for awhile, typically a car will gain a few hp as the gear and transmission fluids warm up and you don't want this to be falsely attributed to the mods.
We will do pulls until the power falls off, then let the car sit idling in drive or 2-3rd gear wheels turning for about 5 minutes, then do another pull, compare to our previous data and then take what looks like a good repeatable run to report on. Typically we do 6-10 pulls per mod being tested to make sure we have a stable number. I think this is way more than a typical forum person will do.
On a car that we are not used to or are getting weird results, we will use a scan tool to make sure we are starting each pull with consistent water and intake air temps and electrical load.
The highest readings usually can be had if you wanted to "cheat" (this is not really cheating but create results that might be hard for someone else to duplicate) would be to drive the car on the highway for about 15-20 minutes, come in, put the car on the dyno, turn on the fans for about 15-20 minutes, divert air to the intake with another fan then start your pulls. The second or third pull will usually have a really good result.
We warm up the drivetrain by driving on the dyno rollers under load for awhile, typically a car will gain a few hp as the gear and transmission fluids warm up and you don't want this to be falsely attributed to the mods.
We will do pulls until the power falls off, then let the car sit idling in drive or 2-3rd gear wheels turning for about 5 minutes, then do another pull, compare to our previous data and then take what looks like a good repeatable run to report on. Typically we do 6-10 pulls per mod being tested to make sure we have a stable number. I think this is way more than a typical forum person will do.
On a car that we are not used to or are getting weird results, we will use a scan tool to make sure we are starting each pull with consistent water and intake air temps and electrical load.
02-18-11, 10:35 AM
#52
I would also like to add that we selected a conservative run for Joe's exhaust to put the the article. If I had picked a low baseline and a high post exhaust run, the gains would have been something like 25-26 hp and a max gain of 30ish.
I also invited Joe to be at the test so he could feel comfortable that we were going a good job and to add his input if he felt we were not doing something he felt comfortable with.
Joe did not try to influence or coach me in any way. He did not complain or negatively comment when I selected a lower power run to report on. He is a straight shooter and I hope you guys feel we are as well.
I also invited Joe to be at the test so he could feel comfortable that we were going a good job and to add his input if he felt we were not doing something he felt comfortable with.
Joe did not try to influence or coach me in any way. He did not complain or negatively comment when I selected a lower power run to report on. He is a straight shooter and I hope you guys feel we are as well.
02-18-11, 12:27 PM
#56
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I would also like to add that we selected a conservative run for Joe's exhaust to put the the article. If I had picked a low baseline and a high post exhaust run, the gains would have been something like 25-26 hp and a max gain of 30ish.
I also invited Joe to be at the test so he could feel comfortable that we were going a good job and to add his input if he felt we were not doing something he felt comfortable with.
Joe did not try to influence or coach me in any way. He did not complain or negatively comment when I selected a lower power run to report on.
He is a straight shooter and I hope you guys feel we are as well.
I also invited Joe to be at the test so he could feel comfortable that we were going a good job and to add his input if he felt we were not doing something he felt comfortable with.
Joe did not try to influence or coach me in any way. He did not complain or negatively comment when I selected a lower power run to report on.
He is a straight shooter and I hope you guys feel we are as well.
Your approach on Dyno'ing is the best, that I have ever seen in person!!
Regards,
Joe Z
02-18-11, 08:08 PM
#57
Intermediate
Off topic, but it would be nice, Mike, if MotoIQ planned on testing the header offerings currently available for the IS-F. With no dog in the hunt, and no parts to be sold, I believe many on here would rely upon the MotoIQ results to make their header decisions. What say you?
02-19-11, 10:38 AM
#59
Intermediate
Mike,
I've done quite a bit of testing in the MKIV Supra turbo world, exhaust shootouts in terms of power and torque produced, exhaust shootouts in terms of decibel levels and all-up weight and some testing of intake manifolds as well. In each case I was able to convince the manufacturers, or private owners, to donate their product for testing only purposes. Like you, I had no vested interest in the outcome, the manufacturers/private owners trusted the integrity of our testing protocols and the manufacturers/private owners were invited to be present for the testing.
As a result, we were able to get product donated and I only incurred the cost of shipping the product back to the owners (SP Engineering donated the dyno time and the use of its techs). Occasionally, self-promotiing manufacturers did not want to participate because they were unsure the results would prove their product worthy but, usually, we were able to work around them with private owners. I would think the header manufacturers would want to have their product tested by a disinterested third party and, like Joe Z, they could be present during the testing to assure themselves of its integrity and validity.
This is what I was suggesting and I would be willing to contribute a few dollars to make it happen. Testing IS-F headers would be a huge consumer of time and effort, so I know what I am asking you to consider is no small thing. Hopefully, you can bring if off with some assistance from CL. LMK how I can help if you decide to do this. TIA,
I've done quite a bit of testing in the MKIV Supra turbo world, exhaust shootouts in terms of power and torque produced, exhaust shootouts in terms of decibel levels and all-up weight and some testing of intake manifolds as well. In each case I was able to convince the manufacturers, or private owners, to donate their product for testing only purposes. Like you, I had no vested interest in the outcome, the manufacturers/private owners trusted the integrity of our testing protocols and the manufacturers/private owners were invited to be present for the testing.
As a result, we were able to get product donated and I only incurred the cost of shipping the product back to the owners (SP Engineering donated the dyno time and the use of its techs). Occasionally, self-promotiing manufacturers did not want to participate because they were unsure the results would prove their product worthy but, usually, we were able to work around them with private owners. I would think the header manufacturers would want to have their product tested by a disinterested third party and, like Joe Z, they could be present during the testing to assure themselves of its integrity and validity.
This is what I was suggesting and I would be willing to contribute a few dollars to make it happen. Testing IS-F headers would be a huge consumer of time and effort, so I know what I am asking you to consider is no small thing. Hopefully, you can bring if off with some assistance from CL. LMK how I can help if you decide to do this. TIA,
02-19-11, 04:37 PM
#60
Thank You for your offer Ken,
No offense but after thinking about it, I don't think I am interested in this. I am not super serious about developing the heck out of this car, it is after all a borrowed car and the owner probably doesn't want the car torn into it so much.
Next this is a limited production car so only a small portion of motoiq readers are probably interested in the results. Probably only a small handful of people in the Lexus enthusiast world care as well!
So it would be a lot of time, work, labor and cost to please a small number of people. In the publishing world shootouts are a pain in the ***. The involved companies always complain that you didn't test the part correctly and once one even threatened to sue due to the results. So to avoid this I try to get all manufactures to attend.
This is a really big pain as well as then I get people whining and complaining in my face when I am trying to test. For some cars it's worthwhile because they are very popular and the large community can benefit.
However, if the IS-F community wants to do this, and can come up with a car, headers and some labor and dyno time money, I am willing to volunteer my time and conduct the test and publish the results.
For this particular car, I have already chosen the header I am going to test and am just waiting for it to be built.
No offense but after thinking about it, I don't think I am interested in this. I am not super serious about developing the heck out of this car, it is after all a borrowed car and the owner probably doesn't want the car torn into it so much.
Next this is a limited production car so only a small portion of motoiq readers are probably interested in the results. Probably only a small handful of people in the Lexus enthusiast world care as well!
So it would be a lot of time, work, labor and cost to please a small number of people. In the publishing world shootouts are a pain in the ***. The involved companies always complain that you didn't test the part correctly and once one even threatened to sue due to the results. So to avoid this I try to get all manufactures to attend.
This is a really big pain as well as then I get people whining and complaining in my face when I am trying to test. For some cars it's worthwhile because they are very popular and the large community can benefit.
However, if the IS-F community wants to do this, and can come up with a car, headers and some labor and dyno time money, I am willing to volunteer my time and conduct the test and publish the results.
For this particular car, I have already chosen the header I am going to test and am just waiting for it to be built.