Car and Driver: 2011 Lexus ISF Review
05-11-11, 02:22 PM
#16
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Hm.. Why should we do ignorant people a favor by educating them?
Anyways... people who are comparing the MSRP of the cars have obviously never looked at the real-world price in terms of packages and features. They are just trolling. It's common knowledge amongst buyers that a comparable c63/m3 is likely 10k or more than an IS-F, and you'll NEVER find a base model on the lot.
I find it irresponsible for C&D to simply look at the base price and make a judgment call without specifying the features (And they tend to do that A LOT). It makes them look ignorant and uninformed. If I can buy an IS-F with a stripped interior and zero amenities for 40k, does it make it a better buy? "Trailing the m3 in the price wars." Are you kidding me?
Sorry... I had to rant. ha ha
Anyways... people who are comparing the MSRP of the cars have obviously never looked at the real-world price in terms of packages and features. They are just trolling. It's common knowledge amongst buyers that a comparable c63/m3 is likely 10k or more than an IS-F, and you'll NEVER find a base model on the lot.
I find it irresponsible for C&D to simply look at the base price and make a judgment call without specifying the features (And they tend to do that A LOT). It makes them look ignorant and uninformed. If I can buy an IS-F with a stripped interior and zero amenities for 40k, does it make it a better buy? "Trailing the m3 in the price wars." Are you kidding me?
Sorry... I had to rant. ha ha
05-11-11, 02:25 PM
#17
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Find a totaled 2011 F and swap these parts...
"For 2011, Lexus addressed these concerns in a big way, changing or retuning every major suspension component.
There are softer front springs, stiffer rear springs, larger-diameter anti-roll bars front and rear, stiffer bushings on both the rear subframe and rear anti-roll bar, and a new steering knuckle and front control arms for reduced unsprung mass. Oh, and the rear camber is tweaked as well."
You could swap the springs out and increase the roll bar diameters. Add the stiffer bushings on the rear roll bar while you're at it. That should get you closer to the 2011 set up without a major expense.
"For 2011, Lexus addressed these concerns in a big way, changing or retuning every major suspension component.
There are softer front springs, stiffer rear springs, larger-diameter anti-roll bars front and rear, stiffer bushings on both the rear subframe and rear anti-roll bar, and a new steering knuckle and front control arms for reduced unsprung mass. Oh, and the rear camber is tweaked as well."
You could swap the springs out and increase the roll bar diameters. Add the stiffer bushings on the rear roll bar while you're at it. That should get you closer to the 2011 set up without a major expense.
05-11-11, 03:18 PM
#18
i test drove an ISF on saturday...to be honest, i floored it a few times from a roll, and there was no power until you hit about 30/35 mph. it reminded me of a honda vtec engine. no jolt until you reached a certain threshold. the car really didnt feel too far off from my is250...until the power kicked in, of course...i was absolutely taken back by this.
but...big but...the car had 50 miles on the odo, and 7 miles left on the tank. could have had something to do with it.
but...big but...the car had 50 miles on the odo, and 7 miles left on the tank. could have had something to do with it.
05-11-11, 04:29 PM
#19
The great strides Lexus has made for the F in the first three years is quite amazing. Much props to them for creating a great product and making it even greater year after year. Looking forward to the redesign in the near future!
As for the posters on Car and Driver, I don't find it necessary to retaliate over posts. They're entitled to their closed-minded opinions, and there's little that can sway them. But have them challenged on the pavement... that's the only way to put their words to shame!
As for the posters on Car and Driver, I don't find it necessary to retaliate over posts. They're entitled to their closed-minded opinions, and there's little that can sway them. But have them challenged on the pavement... that's the only way to put their words to shame!
05-11-11, 05:43 PM
#20
i test drove an ISF on saturday...to be honest, i floored it a few times from a roll, and there was no power until you hit about 30/35 mph. it reminded me of a honda vtec engine. no jolt until you reached a certain threshold. the car really didnt feel too far off from my is250...until the power kicked in, of course...i was absolutely taken back by this.
but...big but...the car had 50 miles on the odo, and 7 miles left on the tank. could have had something to do with it.
but...big but...the car had 50 miles on the odo, and 7 miles left on the tank. could have had something to do with it.
05-11-11, 06:24 PM
#21
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I've read that Lightening Lap article from them before and they were quite complimentary of the F in that issue. Now we have an article with a few incorrect numbers and offers a definite bias.
I guess, BMW has some extra ad spots in this month''s magazine
For the record, I rather have drive my car than have it in the shop for weird electronic gremlins.
I guess, BMW has some extra ad spots in this month''s magazine
For the record, I rather have drive my car than have it in the shop for weird electronic gremlins.
05-11-11, 08:55 PM
#22
I know exactly what you mean. 2008 ISF here and there really isn't much power unless you're in the upper rpm range (4k+.)
From a roll, same issue. At 50-60mph, M+Sports mode, 3rd gear and flooring it. A significant amount of power delay until the revs start climbing to 4000 rpms+. 2nd gear roll from 50-60mph is not a good test, will need to shift pretty much immediately after full throttle.
I've learned to drive it accordingly - the engine's powerband is what it is. High revs are needed. Car and Drivers quarter mile test of 13.1 @ 110 makes sense then. It's not until the ISF is moving and in the higher rpm range that it begins to perform.
I think this is true with all Yamaha coengineered Toyota engines.
From a roll, same issue. At 50-60mph, M+Sports mode, 3rd gear and flooring it. A significant amount of power delay until the revs start climbing to 4000 rpms+. 2nd gear roll from 50-60mph is not a good test, will need to shift pretty much immediately after full throttle.
I've learned to drive it accordingly - the engine's powerband is what it is. High revs are needed. Car and Drivers quarter mile test of 13.1 @ 110 makes sense then. It's not until the ISF is moving and in the higher rpm range that it begins to perform.
I think this is true with all Yamaha coengineered Toyota engines.
i test drove an ISF on saturday...to be honest, i floored it a few times from a roll, and there was no power until you hit about 30/35 mph. it reminded me of a honda vtec engine. no jolt until you reached a certain threshold. the car really didnt feel too far off from my is250...until the power kicked in, of course...i was absolutely taken back by this.
but...big but...the car had 50 miles on the odo, and 7 miles left on the tank. could have had something to do with it.
but...big but...the car had 50 miles on the odo, and 7 miles left on the tank. could have had something to do with it.
05-11-11, 09:26 PM
#23
2011 Lexus IS F - Short Take Road Test
To make it easier:
The corporate line at Lexus is that the IS F was never intended to dethrone the BMW M3 as the world’s greatest sports sedan. We, like the general public, never believed it. Just look at the two cars’ spec sheets: Both are based on their respective company’s entry-level sedan; both have special 400-plus-hp V-8s shoehorned upfront; and both have big brakes, ultra-high-performance tires, upgraded sport seats, and so on.
When we first sampled the IS F, however, it was clear it wasn’t quite up to the task for which Lexus swore it wasn’t intended but everybody knew it was. The BMW M3 is a perennial 10Best winner, and its head-to-head battle with the IS F is just one of the current car’s five C/D comparison-test victories.
A Thorough Revamp
Still, the IS F had serious potential; its 416-hp V-8 left no doubt about that. But its ride and handling simply didn’t deliver. It would hobbyhorse down uneven pavement and batter occupants in a straight line but roll excessively in corners. For 2011, Lexus addressed these concerns in a big way, changing or retuning every major suspension component. There are softer front springs, stiffer rear springs, larger-diameter anti-roll bars front and rear, stiffer bushings on the rear subframe and rear anti-roll bar, and a new steering knuckle and front lower control arms for reduced unsprung mass. Oh, and the rear camber is tweaked as well. The honking V-8 and the eight-speed automatic carry over unchanged, but a Torsen limited-slip replaces the previously open differential. Engineers also retuned the electric power steering, injecting a dose of much-needed feel.
With these changes, the IS F goes from subpar to front-runner. At our latest Lightning Lap track romp at Virginia International Raceway, the 2011 car posted a lap as quick down to the 10th as any we’ve recorded from an M3 coupe (3:05.4), despite weighing roughly 200 more pounds and having only two extra ponies. A lap time is a great measuring stick for performance, but all-out driving alone does not tell the whole story. The ride is still rough but far more livable, and cruising around town in the F is an exercise in sublime stealth. Keep the revs below 4000, and the car will pass into the casual onlooker’s unconscious as just an average sedan. Crank the revs and hit the sport button, and the F becomes a green-light monster, devastating every Japanese car this side of the Nissan GT-R and broadcasting it with a burly exhaust note on throttle and back-pressure burbling off.
A spirited stint on a country road highlights the F’s newfound handling prowess. Corners are inhaled as the driver’s confidence builds. The retuned electric steering feels more natural, more like traditional hydraulically boosted steering, although our skidpad revealed that maximum lateral acceleration, at 0.90 g, is unaffected by the suspension changes. The brake pedal is reassuringly firm. Cracking off shifts with the steering-wheel-mounted paddles doesn’t make us miss a clutch pedal as much as we thought we would, and the swaps feel as quick as any dual-clutch box’s. An audible shift warning lets the driver keep his eyes off the large, centrally located tachometer and on the road. Although we would normally object to an idiot buzzer, with eight ratios to work with and 371 lb-ft of torque hurrying the car through each one, shifts are frequent.
A Different Kind of Green
At the drag strip, our 2011 test car didn’t quite measure up. It was a few 10ths off the other Fs we’ve tested, turning in a 4.7-second 0-to-60-mph run and a 13.1-second quarter-mile at 110 mph. That this car had a fairly green engine, with fewer than 1000 miles on its clock, could account for the drop in performance. Our past IS F test cars all ran to 60 in 4.4 or fewer seconds, with the quickest turning in a 12.8-second quarter at 114 mph. Either way, with its sub-four-second 60-mph dash and low-12-second quarter-mile, the M3 betters the F in a straight line.
The Lexus also trails the M3 in the price wars. A base IS F runs $61,535 compared with the M3 sedan’s $58,075—M3 coupes start at $61,075. Pricing has yet to be released for the updated 2012 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG, but the 2011 sedan starts at $61,175. The 2011 IS F’s base price is an increase of $2200 over the 2010 model’s, and well worth it. The car tested here also had a package bundling touchscreen navigation with a 14-speaker Mark Levinson stereo for $3925 and dynamic cruise control for $1500. A cargo net for $64 and a trunk mat for $73 bumped the total to $67,097. We’d recommend forgoing the fancy cruise and the nickel-and-dime stuff, getting the navigation-only option for $2485, and reserving the roughly $3000 difference for replacement tires. Trust us, you’ll need them.
Highs and Lows
Highs: Fast-acting trans, animal kingdom growl, no gas-guzzler tax, the envy of others.
Lows: Still a tad rough, only four seats, not the quickest F we’ve sampled.
Top Competitors
BMW M3 sedan
Cadillac CTS-V sedan
Infiniti M
Jaguar XFR
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG
Gallery:
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...d_test/gallery
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
2011 Lexus IS F - Short Take Road Test
"In revising the IS F’s suspension, Lexus reinvents its sports sedan."
"In revising the IS F’s suspension, Lexus reinvents its sports sedan."
The corporate line at Lexus is that the IS F was never intended to dethrone the BMW M3 as the world’s greatest sports sedan. We, like the general public, never believed it. Just look at the two cars’ spec sheets: Both are based on their respective company’s entry-level sedan; both have special 400-plus-hp V-8s shoehorned upfront; and both have big brakes, ultra-high-performance tires, upgraded sport seats, and so on.
When we first sampled the IS F, however, it was clear it wasn’t quite up to the task for which Lexus swore it wasn’t intended but everybody knew it was. The BMW M3 is a perennial 10Best winner, and its head-to-head battle with the IS F is just one of the current car’s five C/D comparison-test victories.
A Thorough Revamp
Still, the IS F had serious potential; its 416-hp V-8 left no doubt about that. But its ride and handling simply didn’t deliver. It would hobbyhorse down uneven pavement and batter occupants in a straight line but roll excessively in corners. For 2011, Lexus addressed these concerns in a big way, changing or retuning every major suspension component. There are softer front springs, stiffer rear springs, larger-diameter anti-roll bars front and rear, stiffer bushings on the rear subframe and rear anti-roll bar, and a new steering knuckle and front lower control arms for reduced unsprung mass. Oh, and the rear camber is tweaked as well. The honking V-8 and the eight-speed automatic carry over unchanged, but a Torsen limited-slip replaces the previously open differential. Engineers also retuned the electric power steering, injecting a dose of much-needed feel.
With these changes, the IS F goes from subpar to front-runner. At our latest Lightning Lap track romp at Virginia International Raceway, the 2011 car posted a lap as quick down to the 10th as any we’ve recorded from an M3 coupe (3:05.4), despite weighing roughly 200 more pounds and having only two extra ponies. A lap time is a great measuring stick for performance, but all-out driving alone does not tell the whole story. The ride is still rough but far more livable, and cruising around town in the F is an exercise in sublime stealth. Keep the revs below 4000, and the car will pass into the casual onlooker’s unconscious as just an average sedan. Crank the revs and hit the sport button, and the F becomes a green-light monster, devastating every Japanese car this side of the Nissan GT-R and broadcasting it with a burly exhaust note on throttle and back-pressure burbling off.
A spirited stint on a country road highlights the F’s newfound handling prowess. Corners are inhaled as the driver’s confidence builds. The retuned electric steering feels more natural, more like traditional hydraulically boosted steering, although our skidpad revealed that maximum lateral acceleration, at 0.90 g, is unaffected by the suspension changes. The brake pedal is reassuringly firm. Cracking off shifts with the steering-wheel-mounted paddles doesn’t make us miss a clutch pedal as much as we thought we would, and the swaps feel as quick as any dual-clutch box’s. An audible shift warning lets the driver keep his eyes off the large, centrally located tachometer and on the road. Although we would normally object to an idiot buzzer, with eight ratios to work with and 371 lb-ft of torque hurrying the car through each one, shifts are frequent.
A Different Kind of Green
At the drag strip, our 2011 test car didn’t quite measure up. It was a few 10ths off the other Fs we’ve tested, turning in a 4.7-second 0-to-60-mph run and a 13.1-second quarter-mile at 110 mph. That this car had a fairly green engine, with fewer than 1000 miles on its clock, could account for the drop in performance. Our past IS F test cars all ran to 60 in 4.4 or fewer seconds, with the quickest turning in a 12.8-second quarter at 114 mph. Either way, with its sub-four-second 60-mph dash and low-12-second quarter-mile, the M3 betters the F in a straight line.
The Lexus also trails the M3 in the price wars. A base IS F runs $61,535 compared with the M3 sedan’s $58,075—M3 coupes start at $61,075. Pricing has yet to be released for the updated 2012 Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG, but the 2011 sedan starts at $61,175. The 2011 IS F’s base price is an increase of $2200 over the 2010 model’s, and well worth it. The car tested here also had a package bundling touchscreen navigation with a 14-speaker Mark Levinson stereo for $3925 and dynamic cruise control for $1500. A cargo net for $64 and a trunk mat for $73 bumped the total to $67,097. We’d recommend forgoing the fancy cruise and the nickel-and-dime stuff, getting the navigation-only option for $2485, and reserving the roughly $3000 difference for replacement tires. Trust us, you’ll need them.
Highs and Lows
Highs: Fast-acting trans, animal kingdom growl, no gas-guzzler tax, the envy of others.
Lows: Still a tad rough, only four seats, not the quickest F we’ve sampled.
Top Competitors
BMW M3 sedan
Cadillac CTS-V sedan
Infiniti M
Jaguar XFR
Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG
Specifications
VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 4-door sedan
PRICE AS TESTED: $67,097 (base price: $61,535)
ENGINE TYPE: DOHC 32-valve V-8, aluminum block and heads, port and direct fuel injection
Displacement: 303 cu in, 4969 cc
Power (SAE net): 416 hp @ 6600 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 371 lb-ft @ 5200 rpm
TRANSMISSION: 8-speed automatic with manual shifting mode
DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 107.5 in Length: 183.5 in
Width: 71.5 in Height: 55.7 in
Curb weight: 3839 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.0 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 28.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 110 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 169 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 159 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g
FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 16/23 mpg
C/D observed: 18 mpg
VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear-wheel-drive, 4-passenger, 4-door sedan
PRICE AS TESTED: $67,097 (base price: $61,535)
ENGINE TYPE: DOHC 32-valve V-8, aluminum block and heads, port and direct fuel injection
Displacement: 303 cu in, 4969 cc
Power (SAE net): 416 hp @ 6600 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 371 lb-ft @ 5200 rpm
TRANSMISSION: 8-speed automatic with manual shifting mode
DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 107.5 in Length: 183.5 in
Width: 71.5 in Height: 55.7 in
Curb weight: 3839 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 4.7 sec
Zero to 100 mph: 11.0 sec
Zero to 150 mph: 28.2 sec
Street start, 5–60 mph: 5.1 sec
Standing ¼-mile: 13.1 sec @ 110 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 169 mph
Braking, 70–0 mph: 159 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.90 g
FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: 16/23 mpg
C/D observed: 18 mpg
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...d_test/gallery
http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take_road_test
05-11-11, 11:42 PM
#24
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I know exactly what you mean. 2008 ISF here and there really isn't much power unless you're in the upper rpm range (4k+.)
From a roll, same issue. At 50-60mph, M+Sports mode, 3rd gear and flooring it. A significant amount of power delay until the revs start climbing to 4000 rpms+. 2nd gear roll from 50-60mph is not a good test, will need to shift pretty much immediately after full throttle.
I've learned to drive it accordingly - the engine's powerband is what it is. High revs are needed. Car and Drivers quarter mile test of 13.1 @ 110 makes sense then. It's not until the ISF is moving and in the higher rpm range that it begins to perform.
I think this is true with all Yamaha coengineered Toyota engines.
From a roll, same issue. At 50-60mph, M+Sports mode, 3rd gear and flooring it. A significant amount of power delay until the revs start climbing to 4000 rpms+. 2nd gear roll from 50-60mph is not a good test, will need to shift pretty much immediately after full throttle.
I've learned to drive it accordingly - the engine's powerband is what it is. High revs are needed. Car and Drivers quarter mile test of 13.1 @ 110 makes sense then. It's not until the ISF is moving and in the higher rpm range that it begins to perform.
I think this is true with all Yamaha coengineered Toyota engines.
No. What you are saying applies to all engines. It doesn't matter what car it is, you have to learn the power band and understand where it makes the most sense to start a run from the roll. If you think 4000rpm is high, try the m3.
05-12-11, 05:00 AM
#26
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I know exactly what you mean. 2008 ISF here and there really isn't much power unless you're in the upper rpm range (4k+.)
From a roll, same issue. At 50-60mph, M+Sports mode, 3rd gear and flooring it. A significant amount of power delay until the revs start climbing to 4000 rpms+. 2nd gear roll from 50-60mph is not a good test, will need to shift pretty much immediately after full throttle.
I've learned to drive it accordingly - the engine's powerband is what it is. High revs are needed. Car and Drivers quarter mile test of 13.1 @ 110 makes sense then. It's not until the ISF is moving and in the higher rpm range that it begins to perform.
I think this is true with all Yamaha coengineered Toyota engines.
From a roll, same issue. At 50-60mph, M+Sports mode, 3rd gear and flooring it. A significant amount of power delay until the revs start climbing to 4000 rpms+. 2nd gear roll from 50-60mph is not a good test, will need to shift pretty much immediately after full throttle.
I've learned to drive it accordingly - the engine's powerband is what it is. High revs are needed. Car and Drivers quarter mile test of 13.1 @ 110 makes sense then. It's not until the ISF is moving and in the higher rpm range that it begins to perform.
I think this is true with all Yamaha coengineered Toyota engines.
With the isf, once you get out of first gear you will be in the power band for the rest of the run. This is the same for many other modern transmissions.
Though the 13.1 quarter mile makes sense, i believe that it is due to driver error. When my car was stock i was able to run 12.7-12.8 consistently while my friend could only pull 12.9-13.1 in the same car on the same night.
05-13-11, 06:29 AM
#29
Driver
What took them so long? I have had mine for almost 5 months...
The interior and new gauges are also a major improvement IMO.
Mine looks just like the one in the article, down to the dirt under the hood
The interior and new gauges are also a major improvement IMO.
Mine looks just like the one in the article, down to the dirt under the hood
05-13-11, 07:48 AM
#30
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I feel the 2011 gauge cluster is a huge step backward. Who needs a tach that big, with such a relatively low redline, in an automatic car? Plus, the speedo is smaller than most cars' fuel gauges. Had they gone with the LFA cluster, now, that would have been different. But this looks haphazardly thrown together IMHO.
The "sub-4 second" time C&D is getting with their M3s, I call major BS. As for their "performance testing" this article is from a "first drive" where journalists attend events sponsored by the manufacturer and have a very limited time with the vehicle. By the looks of those numbers, it sounds like their 'test track' was at an elevation of about 9000 feet.
The "sub-4 second" time C&D is getting with their M3s, I call major BS. As for their "performance testing" this article is from a "first drive" where journalists attend events sponsored by the manufacturer and have a very limited time with the vehicle. By the looks of those numbers, it sounds like their 'test track' was at an elevation of about 9000 feet.