DCoolBeans

Props on the toe numbers! Even a slight toe messes drastically with handling.

meade916

ya it was aligned before - already said i dont have them handy


i will try to dig them up.

meade916

the adjustable toe links work GREAT!!!

thanks man!

DCoolBeans

Having a slight bit of camber in the rear helps keep it stable at higher speeds, on staggered set ups

No no, thank you for trying out these new products and posting your reviews

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

Great Job Steve. Thanks again for posting up all the info and for the write ups. Glad Lexus did not give you an evil eye. In fact my suspension was chosen by toyota for the up an coming SEMA show GS350 project, so the do have a certain OEM appeal to them. Its always nice to get a nod for the dealer, even though most of the time they are completely lost.

@kingphilip I have some parts stages for the Gen1 GS which shares a subframe with the supra and SC, so there are some products coming. I can only support so many vehicles and delivery the quality of service I want to with my products.


Fig

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

??? All racers have toe in at the rear to help the car turn. Even the guys running solid rear ends tweak them to toe in a little bit.

Zero toe? Mitch let you do that?

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

Lance a lowered toe link will be in inclination, meaning much more toe in under compression. I usually target toe in of 0.05. Negative toe or toe out will make this car oversteer like crazy. Toe in is a requirement to maintain stability. On the off-off weight corner, it will also toe out more than stock giving center-of-corner direction.

DCoolBeans

Easy dude. I wasn't saying zero toe. I was just saying how sensitive staggered cars are with even a slight bump up/down in toe. Did you see his before #'s in the toe area?


Yup!

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

So with zero toe at static ride height, you're expecting to see 1.5mm toe in on the corner under compression, and some degree of toe out on the corner under extension?

I know all the reasons for toe in at the rear and all the reasons it can be troublesome. I also know toe out in the rear will make the car very unstable if it is on the outside wheel. Just wanting to understand why zero toe at static ride height.

OG Dada

iTrader: (10)

What do you mean? You have rear lower suspension parts for 1SC's? Where can we find them?

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

I am actually not disagreeing with you but it is a balance point selection. Static toe in at 0 of course means a quicker transition to toe out which will increase steering slightly.

I did a quick map of just the toe link at an L of 11"
The inward movement X at upward travel Y is as follows:
Y | X | Inclination
1 0.04 5 degrees
1.9 0.17 10 degrees
2.85 0.37 15 degrees

This is just influence and not balance with the rear LCA , upper lateral links and the Trac link. I should probably scan this someday and create an animation to demostrate the dynamics of the rear end to help people choose their particular ride height and toe settings but for now we just have the emperical.
Once you go below an inch of drop you sit in the "high influence" arc of the toe link since its the shortest linkage in steering bias. That just means you need to pic a center value to oscillate between knowing that it will toe out when the suspension is higher than your static point and toe in when compressed more than that. So the sin of 0.00 toe is not terrible for a DD, it just means you will hit toe out sooner on rebound and possible cause some instability, especially if you are underdamped.

I guess that is another good thing about the KW setup is that the average damping (high speed fluid path and lwo speed fluid path) will reign in the bump steer a little better than a linear damping. Again, its not about ideal, its about as good as it can get without completely changing subframe mount points.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Understood. At some point I'll model the suspension with software for front and rear since I'm pretty sure the stock ride height is compromised to clear curbs, not provide best track performance. It just takes a lot of very careful measurements if the model is going to be any good. My dad did this for his circle track racer and did extremely well against the competition, so I know what I need to do in pretty clear detail.

It would seem Lexus did a pretty complete rethink since 2008 on the rear suspension too - they even changed the rear knuckles, but the subframes are unchanged across all 2IS (and GS) platforms. I suspect they realized the toe control was far from ideal in service. It would certainly be helpful to know exactly what they did, but again, without modeling it, only the engineers know what got done and what they addressed for sure.

Thanks for the explanation, it helps a lot.

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

I have a 3D scanner that takes pretty good measurements :P
Another thing that has been nagging at me is the completely relocate the mount to under the knuckle, buts its not going to be for everyone and the machining is going to me a lot more complicated (tolerances) and more safety factor on the thickness I can make it while still having enough misalignment. Anyway. The joys of trying to make things snappy. The MEGA arm and toe link setup as-implement is pretty predicatable and flickable. You can plant the rear wherever you want in to the corner. But I can also see why Lexus would need to make it tame. Not every driver can handle lightning fast steering so you need to make an acceptable car for the market that still allows control.

The front was obviously a practical thing and a conservative market approach. 1" lower and things change a lot, but damn the caster angle.

Fig

DexRox512

iTrader: (5)

Steve, just saw you cruisin in Rancho...what up! Car looks sick man.

N54MPower

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for posting this meade916, I had no idea that these were available.