lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I wish this was the exception, but unfortunately, every tuner involved with an IS F project in this forum has screwed the owner and not delivered. It would really be refreshing to see someone deliver a working set up. Unfortunately, because the market is tiny and all businesses have limited resources to focus on problems like this (they have to be able to make a fair return on their time and effort) solving this problem will be either someone with a very large bankroll who is willing to burn it to prove it can be done, or we're just going to see more of the same - lots of excitement and hoopla at the beginning, increasing silence in the middle, then a quiet shuffle off to the failure corner at the end.

There are some very large and very real hurdles - the ECM and the fuel system. The direct injection only has so much capacity between the pumps and the injectors, so any solution larger than this will require using the manifold injectors to supplement which they were not designed or sized to do. Think LOTS of custom pieces. Then you've got to figure out how to get a supplemental ECM to run 16 injectors and tell the ECM that everything is working as expected so it doesn't try to mess with things. It's a lot easier said than done. There are no aftermarket ECU supporting 16 sequential injectors, so odds are, it's going to be a combination of batch fire and sequential (the DI must be a pass through) to accommodate existing electronics. You had it easy with only 12 injectors in the 2GR-FSE...

And just when you thought all the control systems could be handled, you've got the static compression ratio to fight, and no aftermarket pistons with lower compression are available. You'd be a total fool to put a thick headgasket in it because it would kill the angled squish they built into the combustion chamber and you'd likely do more harm than good.

So...

They've got their work cut out for them. It won't be easy to do it right. We've already seen how to do it wrong with a couple of vendors on the site...

Bugermass

Hello, I'm one of the guys doing the RnD on Elmer's project. We will be fully controlling the direct injection. Most likely we will be using the factory DI drivers. We will also be controlling the port injectors. I'm currently studying the published Denso patents regarding the control of the VVTiE which is a slightly more complicated strategy to implement proper cam control with. As far as the exhaust cam control goes its nothing I havn't done before. Compression isn't an issue, and there ARE low compression pistons available for this motor should the need arise.

At one time at a shop I used to work for we inherited an ISF project from a shop that went under. It had a fully built motor with iron sleeves, pistons, rods, valvetrane etc etc. So the parts are there, just have to find them

I work closely with Jason Siebles from ProEFI and we are working vigilantly to be the first aftermarket EMS to properly and fully control DI. Most of the strategy is already in place in the current firmware versions and I'll actually be in AZ all next week spending time at ProEFI working on stuff ..

lobuxracer is correct that the port injection will have to be run in batch fire due to current hardware limitations. Running in batch fire on the secondary injection system is not going to affect performance one bit. At the time that the secondary injectors are staged in, injection timing will be unimportant. Once everything is in place we will be able to run the engine as good if not better than factory and we will be able to add flexfuel support as well as TONS of other features.

ISFSteve

Wow! This is the most informative and impressive response I have seen in the two years I have been on this forum regarding this topic. Very nice

ISF4life

iTrader: (30)

Please keep us up date

aWorkOfArt

In for updates!

06isDriver

THis is good to know. I've been running a MAPECU system on mine and am preparing for a turbo setup but was limited in fuel delivery. The MAPECU can also run auxiallary injectors and I wanted to utilize the port injectors in the same manner you are suggesting, but batch firing was all that I could do. At what point do you plan on staging in the port injectors and how will the OEM ecu respond to highjacking them?

RCB

iTrader: (18)

I have only heard great things about ProEFI so that's a positive note. Good luck, hope to see your work pay off.

streetx

iTrader: (4)

just thinking out loudly here, correct me if im wrong

wouldnt it make more logical sense to try and develop and tune the stock motor first. I mean eliminating boost and/or n2o off the bat should reduce the number of problems that may arise becuase you wont have a another factor to worry about

Bugermass

Thats the plan..

Bugermass

The problem with using a piggy back like map ECU or FIC is that the car blends between DI and PI at various times in various conditions, so you can't just disable the secondaries and take them over without causeing all kinds of issues. It would be so much simpler if they were just staged in at WOT or somthing but unfortunatly this is not how they work. By us taking over the WHOLE fuel system we will have control over when and how we stage in injection.

Also, keeping the factory ECU happy is a specialty of mine lol.. Its not easy but its usually possible with enough time and effort.

Bugermass

This is definatly not a walk in the park, and there is alot of RnD that is going into making this work properly without upsetting the stock ECU. Later down the road for the people who don't care about CELs we will just take over everything, including the drive by wire. At that point the ECU can go full limp mode and the car will still drive normally. But for now our goal is to get the system working in harmony with the factory ECU by taking over the minimum systems needed to be able to tune the car. The factory variable cam and drive by wire stuff will still be handled by the stock ECU at this stage.

ISF4life

iTrader: (30)

Sounds very interesting and promising

streetx

iTrader: (4)

Good luck with the project and hope for the best,

i have a feeling the stock motor can yield some extra power from a tune but no one has been able to tune the car yet

mishkinm5

iTrader: (1)

I am hoping for positive results!

cchung0588

iTrader: (-1)

sounds promising