Headers: Drone, MPG, Emissions
04-14-12, 04:47 AM
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Headers: Drone, MPG, Emissions
I'm looking at purchasing Sikky headers but had a few questions. For those of you with headers and JoeZ exhaust did the combo create a drone during HWY driving? I drive over a thousand miles a month, mostly highway miles and dont want to be annoyed during long trips. I can barley hear my JoeZ at 80 right now, which is nice.
Does the Sikky headers decrease or change the MPG? (besides the fact your hitting the gas peadal more because its fun).
Lastly does anyone have problems passing emissions testing? Specifcally in Maryland.
Thank you,
Tom
Does the Sikky headers decrease or change the MPG? (besides the fact your hitting the gas peadal more because its fun).
Lastly does anyone have problems passing emissions testing? Specifcally in Maryland.
Thank you,
Tom
04-14-12, 08:49 AM
#2
I'm looking at purchasing Sikky headers but had a few questions.
For those of you with headers and JoeZ exhaust did the combo create a drone during HWY driving?
I have PPE Headers, HiFlow cats and a custom exhaust - NO DRONE. A friend has PPE, no cats and JoeZ - Lots of noise and lots of drone.
I drive over a thousand miles a month, mostly highway miles and dont want to be annoyed during long trips. I can barley hear my JoeZ at 80 right now, which is nice.
IMO, any header will exacerbate the drone already present in the exhaust system. Again, IMO, the JoeZ already contains drone, add headers and remove the primary cats and the drone will increase.
Does the Sikky headers decrease or change the MPG? (besides the fact your hitting the gas peadal more because its fun).
Because headers are more efficient than the stock manifolds, MPG should increase if the car is driven in the same fashion it was before header installation.
Lastly does anyone have problems passing emissions testing? Specifcally in Maryland.
Tough to answer. It is against Federal Law to remove the stock cats from your exhaust system. You have already violated that law with your removal of the secondary cats. If you install HiFlow cats with your headers, as I did, you should pass the sniffer. However, you will fail a visual if the inspector knows what he is doing. You will also fail visual with your current JoeZ setup.
Thank you,
Tom
For those of you with headers and JoeZ exhaust did the combo create a drone during HWY driving?
I have PPE Headers, HiFlow cats and a custom exhaust - NO DRONE. A friend has PPE, no cats and JoeZ - Lots of noise and lots of drone.
I drive over a thousand miles a month, mostly highway miles and dont want to be annoyed during long trips. I can barley hear my JoeZ at 80 right now, which is nice.
IMO, any header will exacerbate the drone already present in the exhaust system. Again, IMO, the JoeZ already contains drone, add headers and remove the primary cats and the drone will increase.
Does the Sikky headers decrease or change the MPG? (besides the fact your hitting the gas peadal more because its fun).
Because headers are more efficient than the stock manifolds, MPG should increase if the car is driven in the same fashion it was before header installation.
Lastly does anyone have problems passing emissions testing? Specifcally in Maryland.
Tough to answer. It is against Federal Law to remove the stock cats from your exhaust system. You have already violated that law with your removal of the secondary cats. If you install HiFlow cats with your headers, as I did, you should pass the sniffer. However, you will fail a visual if the inspector knows what he is doing. You will also fail visual with your current JoeZ setup.
Thank you,
Tom
Lou
04-14-12, 01:37 PM
#6
i have sikky and joe z… there is IMO light drone around 2000 rpm but if you down shift to 7th gear the drone is gone. i get 25-26mpg highway and like 12 in the city because i drive very aggressive most of the time. im very happy with the sound and power the upgrades have given me.
04-14-12, 02:26 PM
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FYI for All...
i have sikky and joe z… there is IMO light drone around 2000 rpm but if you down shift to 7th gear the drone is gone. i get 25-26mpg highway and like 12 in the city because i drive very aggressive most of the time. im very happy with the sound and power the upgrades have given me.
Great Post Ryan..!!
Tom, do you currently experience the soo called "drone" that Lou describes ???
I drive over 70 miles a day and carry multiple business calls & meetings via Bluetooth ..
Like you, I'm running OEM manifolds - NO DRONE..!!
We're reaching over 500 systems sold World Wide..
If only a few people have an opinion of a so called "drone", then it's a personal preference sound issue.
Just my own expert opinion.
I might go headers when I reach 100K miles on the Odomoter....
Regards,
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 04-14-12 at 02:39 PM.
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04-14-12, 04:27 PM
#8
Finally a daily product / user perspective....
Great Post Ryan..!!
Tom, do you currently experience the soo called "drone" that Lou describes ???
I drive over 70 miles a day and carry multiple business calls & meetings via Bluetooth ..
Like you, I'm running OEM manifolds - NO DRONE..!!
We're reaching over 500 systems sold World Wide..
If only a few people have an opinion of a so called "drone", then it's a personal preference sound issue.
Just my own expert opinion.
I might go headers when I reach 100K miles on the Odomoter....
Regards,
Joe Z
Great Post Ryan..!!
Tom, do you currently experience the soo called "drone" that Lou describes ???
I drive over 70 miles a day and carry multiple business calls & meetings via Bluetooth ..
Like you, I'm running OEM manifolds - NO DRONE..!!
We're reaching over 500 systems sold World Wide..
If only a few people have an opinion of a so called "drone", then it's a personal preference sound issue.
Just my own expert opinion.
I might go headers when I reach 100K miles on the Odomoter....
Regards,
Joe Z
There has been many threads describing perceived drone. I made this statement in an earlier one:
From all the reading I've done on these forums regarding exhaust systems, their seems to be a big disparity in what drone is or is not. We all have our own ideas. And personally, I can't stand drone or a real aggressive exhaust tone. That is why I have gone to the lengths that I have to retain the stock mufflers, even if it means a little more restriction. IMHO, the solution I have finally come upon is the best of all worlds. I luv my system from the PPE headers to the stock tips
Lou
Lou
I don't appreciate my opinions being soo called . They are my opinions and I freely share them here.
Lou
04-14-12, 05:04 PM
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Joe - Over the years you and I have corresponded a lot, and I have never made a disparaging statement about your exhaust. In fact, just the opposite, I have praised it on many occasions.
There has been many threads describing perceived drone. I made this statement in an earlier one:
I don't appreciate my opinions being "soo called". They are my opinions and I freely share them here.
Lou
There has been many threads describing perceived drone. I made this statement in an earlier one:
I don't appreciate my opinions being "soo called". They are my opinions and I freely share them here.
Lou
I have already stated my opinion as well in that very same thread..
~ Below is a great description of how to know if your "Exhaust Drones"
Originally Posted by Beechkid
Exhaust drone - Causes & Solutions
Exhaust Drone
Exhaust drone & exhaust noise while both are different by definition, both are created as a result of impactors/promoters. Exhaust drone is that which is caused by harmonics - a soundwave generated which in essence takes the exhaust sound and sends it back up the exhaust system (towards the engine) and is released or transferred into the passenger compartment. This transfer typically happens where large contact areas exist that have little to no sound dampening qualities and/or materials as a result of the muffler construction or vehicle manufacturer.
Exhaust Noise (in passenger compartment) is what most people actually complain about. While harmonics do play a contributive role, it is not the primary cause.
Impactors/Promoters
I would love to tell everyone that “x” is the cause 99% of the time for exhaust noise complaints, but it is typically a series or combination of numerous factors which leads or develops the level of noise which is uncomfortable to the ear. The first “rule” of an exhaust system is that the noise should be generated at the point of discharge (ie tailpipe tip). Obviously, if the tip terminates at your door or immediately under the passenger compartment, the sound level will be much greater at the exhaust discharge point than if the tip exits the rear of the vehicle, but this is common sense.
Assuming that there are no exhaust system leaks and isolators are correctly installed at all mounting points, what is not acceptable by industry standards, is when an exhaust system has been installed correctly, exiting well past the passenger compartment to have substantial exhaust sound transfer into the passenger compartment at a level which does not allow a person to talk without raising their voice to well above ambient noise levels. Whether you love to hear your engine roar (which I do), stereo blast or have a conversation, this interfers with your ability to enjoy what you like.....
Exhaust Drone
Exhaust drone & exhaust noise while both are different by definition, both are created as a result of impactors/promoters. Exhaust drone is that which is caused by harmonics - a soundwave generated which in essence takes the exhaust sound and sends it back up the exhaust system (towards the engine) and is released or transferred into the passenger compartment. This transfer typically happens where large contact areas exist that have little to no sound dampening qualities and/or materials as a result of the muffler construction or vehicle manufacturer.
Exhaust Noise (in passenger compartment) is what most people actually complain about. While harmonics do play a contributive role, it is not the primary cause.
Impactors/Promoters
I would love to tell everyone that “x” is the cause 99% of the time for exhaust noise complaints, but it is typically a series or combination of numerous factors which leads or develops the level of noise which is uncomfortable to the ear. The first “rule” of an exhaust system is that the noise should be generated at the point of discharge (ie tailpipe tip). Obviously, if the tip terminates at your door or immediately under the passenger compartment, the sound level will be much greater at the exhaust discharge point than if the tip exits the rear of the vehicle, but this is common sense.
Assuming that there are no exhaust system leaks and isolators are correctly installed at all mounting points, what is not acceptable by industry standards, is when an exhaust system has been installed correctly, exiting well past the passenger compartment to have substantial exhaust sound transfer into the passenger compartment at a level which does not allow a person to talk without raising their voice to well above ambient noise levels. Whether you love to hear your engine roar (which I do), stereo blast or have a conversation, this interfers with your ability to enjoy what you like.....
Best Regards as always,
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 04-14-12 at 05:23 PM.
04-15-12, 03:58 AM
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Joe and Lou,
I currently do not expereice any drone with my JoeZ exhaust and love everything about it. Hence my concearn with adding headers. I know my car will be louder with headers but as long as I can carry on a conversation in my car without yelling and it does not sound like a ricer I would be happy.
Thank you,
Tom
I currently do not expereice any drone with my JoeZ exhaust and love everything about it. Hence my concearn with adding headers. I know my car will be louder with headers but as long as I can carry on a conversation in my car without yelling and it does not sound like a ricer I would be happy.
Thank you,
Tom
Finally a daily product / user perspective....
Great Post Ryan..!!
Tom, do you currently experience the soo called "drone" that Lou describes ???
I drive over 70 miles a day and carry multiple business calls & meetings via Bluetooth ..
Like you, I'm running OEM manifolds - NO DRONE..!!
We're reaching over 500 systems sold World Wide..
If only a few people have an opinion of a so called "drone", then it's a personal preference sound issue.
Just my own expert opinion.
I might go headers when I reach 100K miles on the Odomoter....
Regards,
Joe Z
Great Post Ryan..!!
Tom, do you currently experience the soo called "drone" that Lou describes ???
I drive over 70 miles a day and carry multiple business calls & meetings via Bluetooth ..
Like you, I'm running OEM manifolds - NO DRONE..!!
We're reaching over 500 systems sold World Wide..
If only a few people have an opinion of a so called "drone", then it's a personal preference sound issue.
Just my own expert opinion.
I might go headers when I reach 100K miles on the Odomoter....
Regards,
Joe Z
04-15-12, 08:50 AM
#11
Joe and Lou,
I currently do not expereice any drone with my JoeZ exhaust and love everything about it. Hence my concearn with adding headers. I know my car will be louder with headers but as long as I can carry on a conversation in my car without yelling and it does not sound like a ricer I would be happy.
Thank you,
Tom
I currently do not expereice any drone with my JoeZ exhaust and love everything about it. Hence my concearn with adding headers. I know my car will be louder with headers but as long as I can carry on a conversation in my car without yelling and it does not sound like a ricer I would be happy.
Thank you,
Tom
04-15-12, 09:26 AM
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I have PPE and Joe Z and I do think there is some drone that can be annoying on long drives... Most of my drives are 20-30 min so it's not usually an issue, but if you drive over an hour it can be tiresome....
NOW, having said that, the positives certainly outweigh the negatives.... I Like having an exotic and louder than OEM exhaust note and people are ALWAYS saying ... "Damn your car sounds SICK!!!" I did have Joe Z on for a few weeks before the headers were installed.... I did feel there was "some" drone with this setup, but definitely feel that the headers made it more of an issue. Later with the addition of magnaflow high flow cats this certainly helped a little with: 1.) total dB's, 2.) less rasp. 3.) and less drone. (also less gas smell in the exhaust). As others have said, you can certainly have conversations with passengers or over bluetooth, but sometimes I feel that I have to "talk loud".
Hope this unbiased insight/ info is helpful.
NOW, having said that, the positives certainly outweigh the negatives.... I Like having an exotic and louder than OEM exhaust note and people are ALWAYS saying ... "Damn your car sounds SICK!!!" I did have Joe Z on for a few weeks before the headers were installed.... I did feel there was "some" drone with this setup, but definitely feel that the headers made it more of an issue. Later with the addition of magnaflow high flow cats this certainly helped a little with: 1.) total dB's, 2.) less rasp. 3.) and less drone. (also less gas smell in the exhaust).
As others have said, you can certainly have conversations with passengers or over bluetooth, but sometimes I feel that I have to "talk loud".Hope this unbiased insight/ info is helpful.
04-15-12, 01:42 PM
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i have sikky and joe z… there is IMO light drone around 2000 rpm but if you down shift to 7th gear the drone is gone. i get 25-26mpg highway and like 12 in the city because i drive very aggressive most of the time. im very happy with the sound and power the upgrades have given me.
I decided to go with borla, based on hearing cayman's setup sikky with borla.
04-15-12, 03:20 PM
#14
What city do drive in? From my experience, most cities are only a couple of blocks, so that's aggressive driving! Lol! My fathers family is from VT, hardwick and Wilmington.There's probably a lot of laid back drivers you have to race around.
I decided to go with borla, based on hearing cayman's setup sikky with borla.
I decided to go with borla, based on hearing cayman's setup sikky with borla.
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