IS-F vs. E90 M3
08-07-12, 01:22 PM
#47
The "marquee" name and "prestige/class" is why it generates much more fanbois.
To each his own
08-07-12, 02:03 PM
#48
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Out of boredom I clicked over to the M3forum.net and on just the FIRST page of E90/E92/E93 forum are these threads:
M3 on fire: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=412972
Grinding noise in differential: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=404421
Major engine damage: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=410047
Metal clanging from left rear wheel: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=380220
If you end up with an M3, make sure to keep a fire extinguisher in the car.
M3 on fire: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=412972
Grinding noise in differential: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=404421
Major engine damage: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=410047
Metal clanging from left rear wheel: http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=380220
If you end up with an M3, make sure to keep a fire extinguisher in the car.
08-07-12, 02:13 PM
#49
To give the OP something else to read, here's a thread where one M3 owner is contemplating a change to the IS-F:
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...highlight=IS-F
For the most part, the replies are pretty mature and point out various pros and cons of each car. Of course there are a couple of M3-dbags (seriously, almost every car guy I talk to has something negative to say about the "typical BMW owner") who spout nonsense and act like the M3 is god's gift to man and the IS-F is a pile of crap. A few of the guys on there have actually owned both cars and those guys all have good things to say about the IS-F.
http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...highlight=IS-F
For the most part, the replies are pretty mature and point out various pros and cons of each car. Of course there are a couple of M3-dbags (seriously, almost every car guy I talk to has something negative to say about the "typical BMW owner") who spout nonsense and act like the M3 is god's gift to man and the IS-F is a pile of crap. A few of the guys on there have actually owned both cars and those guys all have good things to say about the IS-F.
08-07-12, 03:53 PM
#50
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I agree with Autobacs in that the M3 is very alluring considering its racing pedigree, history, etc. however the F was no mistake, and it was great overall. I guess the BMW just didn't do it for me, especially after seeing at least one M3 a day.
08-07-12, 05:53 PM
#51
Isn't that the truth. Any German car for that matter. Before I purchased my F I read of the horror stories with 335's, RS4, E63, etc. There is a lot to be said about a car that you HAVE to buy with a warranty. I mean German cars are basically done at 100k, where my Lexus with 95k still feels very tight and fresh.
08-07-12, 06:11 PM
#52
Isn't that the truth. Any German car for that matter. Before I purchased my F I read of the horror stories with 335's, RS4, E63, etc. There is a lot to be said about a car that you HAVE to buy with a warranty. I mean German cars are basically done at 100k, where my Lexus with 95k still feels very tight and fresh.
Case in point, one of them is currently a MB Dealer certified TECH for 3 years. Prior to that, he was a Lexus Dealer certified TECH for 9 years. So I had to pop him the question as to what car is more reliable. No sooner had I asked the question that he stated "Without question the Lexus is far more reliable than the Mercedes". When they go they go." There you go Folks. I can't think of anyone else credible to verify to me what Consumer Reports have been saying for a long time.
08-07-12, 06:30 PM
#53
It sounds like many of us went Lexus with reliability being a big factor.
But to be honest...if you can afford a $60k car you can afford maintenance on said car. And buying new BMW has free service and maint for x amount of years/miles. That's nothing to sneeze at, even if just oil changes.
Based on my previous experience with BMWs (I seemed to find women prior to my wife that mostly drove BMW's and loved them, even when they needed serious maint every few months), I will never own one. But the M3 is unquestionably an awesome car.
I just don't think you can compare a 50k mile ISF with a 50k mile M3 and even remotely go the BMW route. New, the M3 honestly has an edge. But with some use...no contest.
But to be honest...if you can afford a $60k car you can afford maintenance on said car. And buying new BMW has free service and maint for x amount of years/miles. That's nothing to sneeze at, even if just oil changes.
Based on my previous experience with BMWs (I seemed to find women prior to my wife that mostly drove BMW's and loved them, even when they needed serious maint every few months), I will never own one. But the M3 is unquestionably an awesome car.
I just don't think you can compare a 50k mile ISF with a 50k mile M3 and even remotely go the BMW route. New, the M3 honestly has an edge. But with some use...no contest.
08-07-12, 09:08 PM
#54
Good point but it's not so much a question whether you can afford maintenance. If you can afford an ISF, you can obviously afford an M3 and it's maintenance. It's more on you've got a 60K car and it's brand new and you're already having issues with it and it spends an inordinate amount of time in the shop. It does not matter to me if it's covered by the warranty. If its having issues and spending time in the shop, that's detracting from my ownership experience regardless of how good the car is performance wise. Just my opinion of course.
08-07-12, 09:18 PM
#55
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I went through the same dilemma end of last year. I loved Lexus and the reliability Lexus offers but it just stopped there. All my life I have owned Japanese cars so I wanted to try something unique and different.
I ended up ordering a 2011 e90 M3 with competition package. The thing I loved about the M3 was its high revving V8 motor. There is something intoxicating shifting years at 8400 rpm in a V8. I wanted a manual transmission so that also made me lean more towards the M3 as well. The M3 sedan is probably the best handing sedans out there (out handles the e92 M3 surprisingly). The engine in M3 is probably the most reliable engine BMW offers. It is bullet proof and there is no known issues. People that have been saying its not do not know what they are talking about. Some people have had problems with the DCT transmission but that's about it. Engine is as bullet proof just as the Lexus ISF IMO. 335i is another story.
Another huge benefit going with BMW was being able to pick it up in Germany which I did. I visited the Nurburgring even took a lap on it. I saw sooo many GT3's, M3's, etc at the Ring which made me feel I made the correct decision choosing the M3 where so much of its testing and R&D was done at.
It was an amazing trip that I will never forget. Going through the BMW European Delivery program made me get the M3 cheaper than what I would of paid new for the ISF as well.
Some pics.
Only Lexus I saw in Germany on my trip and it was an ISF at the ring.
Redelivered 2 months later and finally in my garage.
I ended up ordering a 2011 e90 M3 with competition package. The thing I loved about the M3 was its high revving V8 motor. There is something intoxicating shifting years at 8400 rpm in a V8. I wanted a manual transmission so that also made me lean more towards the M3 as well. The M3 sedan is probably the best handing sedans out there (out handles the e92 M3 surprisingly). The engine in M3 is probably the most reliable engine BMW offers. It is bullet proof and there is no known issues. People that have been saying its not do not know what they are talking about. Some people have had problems with the DCT transmission but that's about it. Engine is as bullet proof just as the Lexus ISF IMO. 335i is another story.
Another huge benefit going with BMW was being able to pick it up in Germany which I did. I visited the Nurburgring even took a lap on it. I saw sooo many GT3's, M3's, etc at the Ring which made me feel I made the correct decision choosing the M3 where so much of its testing and R&D was done at.
It was an amazing trip that I will never forget. Going through the BMW European Delivery program made me get the M3 cheaper than what I would of paid new for the ISF as well.
Some pics.
Only Lexus I saw in Germany on my trip and it was an ISF at the ring.
Redelivered 2 months later and finally in my garage.
Last edited by gsrthomas; 08-07-12 at 09:47 PM.
08-07-12, 09:26 PM
#56
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I went through the same dilemma end of last year. I loved Lexus and the reliability Lexus offers but it just stopped there. All my life I have owned Japanese cars so I wanted to try something unique and different.
I ended up ordering a 2011 e90 M3 with competition package. The thing I loved about the M3 was its high revving V8 motor. There is something intoxicating shifting years at 8400 rpm in a V8. I wanted a manual transmission so that also made me lean more towards the M3 as well. The M3 sedan is probably the best handing sedans out there (out handles the e92 M3 surprisingly). The engine in M3 is probably the most reliable engine BMW offers. It is bullet proof and there is no known issues. People that have been saying its not do not know what they are talking about. Some people have had problems with the DCT transmission but that's about it. Engine is as bullet proof just as the Lexus ISF IMO. 335i is another story.
Another huge benefit going with BMW was being able to pick it up in Germany which I did. I visited the Nurburgring even took a lap on it. I saw sooo many GT3's, M3's, etc at the Ring which made me feel I made the correct decision choosing the M3 where so much of its testing and R&D was done at.
It was an amazing trip that I will never forget. Going through the BMW European Delivery program made me get the M3 cheaper than what I would of paid new for the ISF as well.
Some pics.
Only Lexus I saw in Germany on my trip and it was an ISF at the ring.
I ended up ordering a 2011 e90 M3 with competition package. The thing I loved about the M3 was its high revving V8 motor. There is something intoxicating shifting years at 8400 rpm in a V8. I wanted a manual transmission so that also made me lean more towards the M3 as well. The M3 sedan is probably the best handing sedans out there (out handles the e92 M3 surprisingly). The engine in M3 is probably the most reliable engine BMW offers. It is bullet proof and there is no known issues. People that have been saying its not do not know what they are talking about. Some people have had problems with the DCT transmission but that's about it. Engine is as bullet proof just as the Lexus ISF IMO. 335i is another story.
Another huge benefit going with BMW was being able to pick it up in Germany which I did. I visited the Nurburgring even took a lap on it. I saw sooo many GT3's, M3's, etc at the Ring which made me feel I made the correct decision choosing the M3 where so much of its testing and R&D was done at.
It was an amazing trip that I will never forget. Going through the BMW European Delivery program made me get the M3 cheaper than what I would of paid new for the ISF as well.
Some pics.
Only Lexus I saw in Germany on my trip and it was an ISF at the ring.
08-07-12, 09:54 PM
#57
Well great for you and I do hope it is bullet proof as you say it is but until BMW buillds a track record of reliability that Lexus/Toyota has built over decades, it's not going to change the majority of people's opinions.
One car does not make a brand reliable. You enjoy your M3 and I enjoy my F
One car does not make a brand reliable. You enjoy your M3 and I enjoy my F
08-07-12, 10:13 PM
#58
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Funny about the fire extinguisher; I read that thread.
Good link VBB. I will read through all of that as I had not seen that one. $6k for a transmission as soon as one of their M3 was out of warranty. That does not look/sound good.....
Good link VBB. I will read through all of that as I had not seen that one. $6k for a transmission as soon as one of their M3 was out of warranty. That does not look/sound good.....
08-08-12, 02:26 AM
#59
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You know what they say... Lease German, buy Japanese. Wonder why? ha ha. gsrthomas: come back after 50k, then you'll have a point! 
Not that m3 reliability is atrocious by any means... Audi is worse by far.
Cost of maintenance is moot. It's not just about money. It's also about the time and stress of not having your car, repeated trips to the dealership, and worrying about what's going to break next. It's a huge hassle.
Not that m3 reliability is atrocious by any means... Audi is worse by far.Cost of maintenance is moot. It's not just about money. It's also about the time and stress of not having your car, repeated trips to the dealership, and worrying about what's going to break next. It's a huge hassle.
08-08-12, 07:27 AM
#60
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You know what they say... Lease German, buy Japanese. Wonder why? ha ha. gsrthomas: come back after 50k, then you'll have a point! Not that m3 reliability is atrocious by any means... Audi is worse by far.
Cost of maintenance is moot. It's not just about money. It's also about the time and stress of not having your car, repeated trips to the dealership, and worrying about what's going to break next. It's a huge hassle.
Not that m3 reliability is atrocious by any means... Audi is worse by far.Cost of maintenance is moot. It's not just about money. It's also about the time and stress of not having your car, repeated trips to the dealership, and worrying about what's going to break next. It's a huge hassle.
I always wanted a M3 as when I was a kid so I wanted to fulfill my childhood dreams, and I did. M3 is more raw as I was looking for more sport than luxury. Plus I owned an IS250 in 2007 and my wife did not want me to purchase another IS even though it was a ISF. Hard to explain this to the wife.
Also there are lots and lots more M3's out there than ISF's. Some people that get the M3's abuse the living crap out of them and lots of the failures are through abuse and nothing else. I got my M3 with only competition package, and that's about it.
Still like the ISF but if it came in a manual I would probably own one myself.