VtotheJ

iTrader: (2)

I think it's a bit far fetched to say all German cars are unreliable; Porsche has ended up in the top 3 of reliability reports for a while now. The 996's though had RMS issues, and that has been corrected in the 997 models.

Reliability report: https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...-next-car.html

I don't want to start an argument, nor am I a fanboy of the ISF by any means. I have utmost respect for the e90 M3. I think it is too soon to say the e90 has "no known issues" without observing those who have put over 50k miles on their M's. There are many ISF owners with 60K+ miles (that are on the forums) that attest to the fact that their cars have held up with barely any issues in the past 4 years of ownership. The M engine could be the most reliable, I am not denying that, but there are various other issues that concern me even if the car is under warranty.

When I was shopping for my sports sedan, the majority of e90's I came across had just under 50k miles (when the maintenance and warranty expires), so it wasn't a convincing pattern.

vbb

iTrader: (3)

One bad experience can definitely change opinion, even if it wasn't with the same car. I anxiously awaited the release of the 335i back in 2007, and against all better judgment I leased one in the first model year that the car had been out. Everyone knows you should wait a year to see how it works out when a new engine is released, but the car just looked so good on paper. I ordered one with all the options I wanted and none that I didn't, in the color I wanted and everything. The BMW website gives you updates as your car is being built, letting you know when it is in the paint booth, when it is ready for shipping, when it ships, etc... it's pretty cool. I should have done the European Delivery thing, but just getting the updates was neat too.

Anyway, I didn't even have the car for 6 months before I started getting extremely long cranks at startup. The forums were reporting all sorts of issues with the HP Fuel Pumps, and the first symptom they were going was a long startup. I took the car in, they kept it for a day (and gave me a 5-series loaner), and gave it back to me saying it was fixed. Not even a month later, problem happened again. To make an already long story shorter, I had it up there three different times, one time for 4 days and they finally had to completely replace the fuel pump and injectors. It would have cost me a TON if it wasn't under warranty.

Needless to say, when my lease was up, I turned the car in and didn't look back. It was a blast to drive, so I know the M3 is even more so. But damned if I am going to own a used BMW out of warranty. Even though everything was fixed for me, it was an inconvenience to go up there all the time and it really caused me to lose confidence in the brand. Around the same time I got my 335i, my wife got an IS250. Her car never once had a single problem, and we only got rid of it because we were having a kid and needed more space.

Reliability IS an issue, and should be for everyone. Hopefully the M3 turns out to be as "bulletproof" as some of the fanboys over there claim it is, but fool me once...

gsrthomas

iTrader: (1)

I do not think its too soon to know if the M3 is reliable or not yet. It has been out since 2008 and many owners are way past the 50k mile mark with no issues. Like I said I did my research also since I did not want a vehicle that breaks down a lot.

Here is a thread about M3 owners checking in and reporting high mileage/any issues.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthr...hlight=mileage

Lots of M3 owners track and autocross their car too with no issues. Lots of guys on there with 40+ track days with no issues.

I agree with the post above. If I owned a 335i and had 4 fuel pumps go I would not look back for a split second also. I did my research as with all my vehicles and owning a 335i was not even an option for me. If many owners did their research also they would not have bought a 335i also.

The M3 it is the most reliable vehicle in BMW's fleet right now.

My next dream car to own will be a Porsche GT3 RS. Hopefully one day I can buy one of those.

VtotheJ

iTrader: (2)

I believe you that the M3 is reliable; I guess it is a subjective term for car enthusiasts. To me, the car that is 'reliable' should not have issues at least for the first few years of its useful life. For example, considering the recent repairs I did on my 1998 Integra, most would say it isn't reliable, but then again it's a 14-year old car.

I'm not here to bash the M3 - again I love it, there is nothing like it. It's just that I can't get into a car that has the possibility of so many different things to go wrong. I did notice some members driving with no issues, but not enough to convince me personally of its reliability.

• had a hiccup with a sensor at 24,4xx miles and im paranoid and considering getting extended warranty.
• idle control sensor loose, replaced seat belt extender twice
• Idle Air Control Valve replaced at 15k
• Fuel pump failure (warranty replacement).
• fuel pressure sensor replaced recently.
• at 5k my tranny was replaced
• Fuel pump regulator failure
• Replaced the LED tail lights after a strip of the LEDs went out. Steering sensor coincidently went bad driving away from the dealership after an alignment.
• replaced all of the ignition coils, I had problems whit 6 of them in different periods, replace the steering column after the CAS unit was malfunctioned, needed to get a new rubber seal for the exhaust system just above one of the primary cat
• bad O2 sensor replaced early on.
• M3 Reprogram for DCT, Idle regulating valve permanent malfunction
• Only problem was the abs hydraulic pump/motor
• o2 sensor loose
• oil level sensor is bad

The ISF is solid, but some issues that other people have had (not me): odometer needle going out, LCD screen, water pump leak, minor rattles, shaky rearview mirror. Every car is going to have problems, especially for the first year of production, such as the 08 ISF. IMO it has been solid. The M3 has been around a while now, so I find it weird that all these problems above are still occurring.

Don't take me the wrong way, I just wanted to give some facts & opinions from both sides

Evil Teo

iTrader: (13)

just to be fair there were some issues with the 08 ISF...nothing that is major but some stuff...

08 ISF
1. alignment. some cars didn't come out right from the factory as some member have pointed out that the car would lean and turn to one side. caster brackets order to correct caster specs.
2. water pump leak, free replacement from dealer.
3. rearview mirror vibrates when opening moonroof. a new revise one is issue to correct this.
4. engine knock, this is rare as I only heard 3 members have it, the car was still drivable but the sound coming from the engine was metal and annoying i guess.

2012 ISF
1. Phonebook deletion...lol thats the only thing I heard.

if anyone knows of any other issue please add to the list...

Autobacs

iTrader: (1)

# 1 issue: Several BMW Fanbois labeling is as "Japanese crap" It's only a Toyota" like its sacrilege to compare it to an M3

primecut

iTrader: (1)

How about revised gas pedal recall to prevent accidental acceleration?

I think when we have to look that hard to dig up issues, then it's a pretty good sign that the car is reliable ha ha.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

Yeah, that update my car will never have...

Evil Teo

iTrader: (13)

lol I don't think that is a problem...im pretty sure most of us didn't update our cars with that...I think it would be a problem itself if you did apply the update...

primecut

iTrader: (1)

I'm ashamed. I did it because I wanted a free shiny new pedal!!!

Autobacs

iTrader: (1)

You forgot to say you wanted the new mat too!

Me thinks this thread may have run its course LOL.

Endgame

Yeah. THX for all the input All! I have driven an F; I will drive the M within the next couple months then make up my mind. THANKS for all the help!

Just F Me

I expect nothing less than pics of the IS F when you get it. There's no reason to consider an e90 M3...yeah performance this performance that...majority of us do not know how to drive to the limits to even know the difference.

Interior in the IS F is superior, and so is the reliability.

Mine will hit 85,000 miles in the next few days. I've owned her since she had only 23 miles on the clock (I think), and every mile has been a joy. She turns 4 years old on September 17th. Obviously you can tell I'm a happy IS F owner.

Evil Teo

iTrader: (13)

good luck on your decision. what year did you drive for the F?

Capn

Sorry if this is repetitive, I wasn't able to skim over the 5 pages thoroughly.

I'm a long time BMW guy and went through this debate some months ago before picking up my IS-F. The last 10 sports vehicles I have had were BMW's. I'm still very much a fan of them, but in the end, the "smartest" decision turned out to be the IS-F. I'm also a big Toyota fan, primarily 4x4s. I've grown to love and cherish their reliability. More so when you're out on an expedition. You need the reliability. I digress.....After the homework was complete, the IS-F scored more points to me than the M3 for the following reasons:

1. The IS-F has more horsepower and torque. HP is minimally more, but the torque is rather substantial.
2. The IS-F is faster.
3. Lexus has a better warranty that the BMW. In fact, two more years on their drivetrain, which is ironic since Lexus is not the one that needs it.
4. For me, having multiple cars and a great insurance rating, the IS-F was less money to insure than the M3.
5. The Lexus was less money to purchase (comparing apples to apples, year & miles).
6. Around Utah, there are not many IS-F's. I know of about 5 locally. This compares to roughly the 20 I know with M3's.
7. Resale value will always be higher with Lexus.
8. And of course, reliability. You simply cannot look away from the assurance of taking your family on a road trip and having that extra piece of mind that the chances of you breaking down is much less likely in a Lexus than a BMW. I often told friends in the past, that if I were to take a trip across the USA when I had my 6 Series, I would trust my old Land Cruiser with 170K miles on the clock rather than my 6 series that 55K on it. And the 6 series was the most reliable BMW I have owned.
8. And last, something that I had no idea about before the purchase, the Lexus service simply CANNOT be beat by ANYONE, hands down. It's SUCH a breath of fresh air to get treated like a human at Lexus rather than the idiots at our local BMW dealers. It really is amazing. To be honest, if there are times I miss certain aspects about my old BMW, I think of how great Lexus service is here and that makes up for it.

Good luck.