Transmission Problem: Funky shifting and harsh reverse
09-11-12, 11:17 AM
#136
I would also push for root cause of your failure.
I really think the car probably had a leak on the ATF fluid somewhere and eventually ran low enough that it couldn't cool and burned up the trans and caused the trans to stop functioning.
I'm positive your reman'ed trans will be just fine as long as the ATF level in it is kept ok.
I spoke to the F Champion tech at my local dealer about it...he said that he inspects the trans of every IS-F that comes in, as it is what should be done on the IS-F. He said he has never seen a leak. The most he told me about were leaking water pumps, and giving free pads and rotors to people for "squeaky" brakes.
I also spoke to a family member who is a Parts Manager for Lexus and he has mentioned he has never heard of an F trans failing and looked up the part and the California warehouse doesn't stock it.
So hang in there, I'm sure the new trans will ast you a long time! See what type of warranty comes with the reman'ed part as well.
I really think the car probably had a leak on the ATF fluid somewhere and eventually ran low enough that it couldn't cool and burned up the trans and caused the trans to stop functioning.
I'm positive your reman'ed trans will be just fine as long as the ATF level in it is kept ok.
I spoke to the F Champion tech at my local dealer about it...he said that he inspects the trans of every IS-F that comes in, as it is what should be done on the IS-F. He said he has never seen a leak. The most he told me about were leaking water pumps, and giving free pads and rotors to people for "squeaky" brakes.
I also spoke to a family member who is a Parts Manager for Lexus and he has mentioned he has never heard of an F trans failing and looked up the part and the California warehouse doesn't stock it.
So hang in there, I'm sure the new trans will ast you a long time! See what type of warranty comes with the reman'ed part as well.
09-11-12, 11:18 AM
#137
I think everyone should get the extended warranty period. If your out of warranty period, do the trans oil change every 30k by a reputable shop thats not the dealer just to be safe. It's not hard to find the service manual procedure on doing it, and by all means check for leaks often!!
~Dv8
~Dv8
09-11-12, 11:19 AM
#138
Driving hard is one thing. I PERSONALLY know I drive the car pretty hard...is it the same as going to the track for a day though? Definitely not! However, I get on the freeway quickly, and pass people when they need to be passed, however, if I knew that I needed to change the trans oil well before 100k depending on my driving habits, I would have and that's the problem.
It's like Lexus knew this would happen...saying it's 100k fluid, 70k warranty...I guess all of you that have extended warranties will be getting new transmissions before your car goes out of warranty.
It's like Lexus knew this would happen...saying it's 100k fluid, 70k warranty...I guess all of you that have extended warranties will be getting new transmissions before your car goes out of warranty.
09-11-12, 11:32 AM
#139
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I was told by Lexus of Sacramento that my transmission doesn't have any leaks, however, my report from them doesn't say that there is a leak or isn't either a leak so I don't have it on paper.
Pushing for root possible cause is definitely something I'm going for. I believe none of this would have happened if I did replace the transmission fluid, but is ultimately the failure of the transmission fluid is what caused a chain reaction of the rest? We'll see....waiting to hear back from them today for my 2nd round of talks...I want to see if I can speak to someone higher up.
Pushing for root possible cause is definitely something I'm going for. I believe none of this would have happened if I did replace the transmission fluid, but is ultimately the failure of the transmission fluid is what caused a chain reaction of the rest? We'll see....waiting to hear back from them today for my 2nd round of talks...I want to see if I can speak to someone higher up.
09-11-12, 11:48 AM
#140
I was told by Lexus of Sacramento that my transmission doesn't have any leaks, however, my report from them doesn't say that there is a leak or isn't either a leak so I don't have it on paper.
Pushing for root possible cause is definitely something I'm going for. I believe none of this would have happened if I did replace the transmission fluid, but is ultimately the failure of the transmission fluid is what caused a chain reaction of the rest? We'll see....waiting to hear back from them today for my 2nd round of talks...I want to see if I can speak to someone higher up.
Pushing for root possible cause is definitely something I'm going for. I believe none of this would have happened if I did replace the transmission fluid, but is ultimately the failure of the transmission fluid is what caused a chain reaction of the rest? We'll see....waiting to hear back from them today for my 2nd round of talks...I want to see if I can speak to someone higher up.
09-11-12, 12:52 PM
#141
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
On another note...it's pretty insane how much activity this thread is getting. From Saturday to Sunday, the thread jumped 1000 views and i think it's up another 1000 in just the last 2 days.
BTW, I just got off the phone with Lexus...asked him if there was someone else that has had this problem and he states that they don't get too many calls about the IS F at all. Looks like I'm an isolated situation...but then again I'm also one of the higher mileage IS Fs at 87.5k miles...almost 88k now that I drove the car home from Norcal with no reverse and losing 8th gear going through the Grapevine.
There may be a slew of failed IS F transmissions coming up if you have a high mileage IS F and you didn't replace the fluid...IF THE FLUID DAMAGED THE TRANSMISSION HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED! And we will probably never know....
BTW...when I drove the IS F up the grapevine in 6th gear, this baby was flying up the hills no problem.
HEY, if the trans is already broke, I was within 100 miles so I could use my AAA to tow her home if something happened. Might as well have some fun after driving for 5 hours with no one to talk to (this is a good thing actually), and cruise control at 75mph. You guys have no idea how many times i wanted to just floor it and pass up some of the trucks. UGH.
BTW, I just got off the phone with Lexus...asked him if there was someone else that has had this problem and he states that they don't get too many calls about the IS F at all. Looks like I'm an isolated situation...but then again I'm also one of the higher mileage IS Fs at 87.5k miles...almost 88k now that I drove the car home from Norcal with no reverse and losing 8th gear going through the Grapevine.
There may be a slew of failed IS F transmissions coming up if you have a high mileage IS F and you didn't replace the fluid...IF THE FLUID DAMAGED THE TRANSMISSION HAS YET TO BE DETERMINED! And we will probably never know....
BTW...when I drove the IS F up the grapevine in 6th gear, this baby was flying up the hills no problem.
HEY, if the trans is already broke, I was within 100 miles so I could use my AAA to tow her home if something happened. Might as well have some fun after driving for 5 hours with no one to talk to (this is a good thing actually), and cruise control at 75mph. You guys have no idea how many times i wanted to just floor it and pass up some of the trucks. UGH.
Last edited by Just F Me; 09-11-12 at 12:57 PM.
09-11-12, 02:31 PM
#142
Lead Lap
Yea..Just F Me, your thread will get attention as we love to drive our cars and th LEXUS reliabilty, but as most of us are avid in maintaining our vehicle the lifetime fluid question has always pondered in my head as I have had an IS250 with 120K, Scion tc I changed tranny fluid in twice and now at 150K, my mom for her business has been throug two toyota matrixs at 240K a peice and tranny flushes as well on original tranny and I dont believe were recommended just habit..So yes im worried about our life long fluid woes...But my transmission at 81K locks up still very hard, downshifts appropriately and aggressively, and hasnt hiccupped yet knock on wood...So very interesting no doubt.. I am going to email my service advisor, and other dealers just to have documentation of my worries......
09-11-12, 04:26 PM
#143
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
I've called a number of dealerships, and everyone has said 100k miles except one dealership's service advisor has recommended to do it with your 90k service. I would recommend you obviously do it sooner than later based on my experiences now. Seeing how expensive it is to replace a tranny, I'd change the fluid every 25k miles. I want to say dealers charge around $300 for the service.
Now as an IS F owner, I would be worried not only by getting the transmission service, but the thing is HOW reliable is this transmission? Lets say you change the fluids, but you drive the car hard? That's not to say something else might not go bad. NO ONE KNOWS, this isn't a proven transmission.
I looked through the service manuals on how much work, man, it's crazy, the entire front end has to come off the car basically...I hope nothing else is wrong with it, but I guess while it's out, might as well fix/replace whatever else is there.
What do you guys think? Maybe have them replace the water pump? The car almost has 90k miles on it....Should i have them install Sikky Headers? HAHAHAH! JK.
I talked to Crown Lexus in Ontario, CA and that's where I'm taking my IS F to get the transmission replaced. Although I bought my car from them (the absolute most painless purchasing experience ever after buying 2 previous cars), I never did any service with them except have them replace my rear sub woofer, in which the service dept left my rear back seat dirty. I never took my car back there since because I really didn't need anything. I'm not going to take my car in to have the oil replaced by them and what not.
Kinda sucks...now i'm worried about driving my car once it is fixed...ugh.
Now as an IS F owner, I would be worried not only by getting the transmission service, but the thing is HOW reliable is this transmission? Lets say you change the fluids, but you drive the car hard? That's not to say something else might not go bad. NO ONE KNOWS, this isn't a proven transmission.
I looked through the service manuals on how much work, man, it's crazy, the entire front end has to come off the car basically...I hope nothing else is wrong with it, but I guess while it's out, might as well fix/replace whatever else is there.
What do you guys think? Maybe have them replace the water pump? The car almost has 90k miles on it....Should i have them install Sikky Headers? HAHAHAH! JK.
I talked to Crown Lexus in Ontario, CA and that's where I'm taking my IS F to get the transmission replaced. Although I bought my car from them (the absolute most painless purchasing experience ever after buying 2 previous cars), I never did any service with them except have them replace my rear sub woofer, in which the service dept left my rear back seat dirty. I never took my car back there since because I really didn't need anything. I'm not going to take my car in to have the oil replaced by them and what not.
Kinda sucks...now i'm worried about driving my car once it is fixed...ugh.
Last edited by Just F Me; 09-11-12 at 04:30 PM.
09-11-12, 04:55 PM
#144
I'm under warranty until July 2017 or 75K miles, whichever comes first. I just crossed 16K miles this morning. I figure by the time either of those milestones gets close, there will be a lot of data about the longevity of the IS-F, and specifically the transmission out there and I can make an informed decision on whether it makes sense to keep on trucking or get something else. My plan is to stay with something Lexus.
09-11-12, 07:31 PM
#147
Tech Info Resource
iTrader: (2)
Problem one - no one in this thread knows WHY this gearbox failed. Despite this everyone is saying they're going to change their fluid. I'm not unless after spending my $20 on analysis there is a proven reason to change the fluid.
It's possible the TCM failed. It's possible there was a manufacturing defect in the reverse clutch and as the friction plates disintegrated they polluted the whole hydraulic system causing slow death for the rest of the gearbox. This could be completely UNRELATED to the fluid.
All you guys changing your fluid remind me of all the people who sell their motorcycles when a neighbor wrecks his. Knee jerk reaction based on nothing but emotion.
I don't think I'd accept Lexus's offer if it were me, especially when I can get a low mileage gearbox from a salvage yard. I'm also pretty confident an enterprising mechanic won't be dropping the engine (no, the engine does not come out from the top, it only drops below the car) just to change the gearbox. I've read lots of instructions in service manuals telling me all kinds of stupid stuff (like you have to drop the engine with the front subframe to do a clutch in a Scion tC - after the third Fidanza install, I had the gearbox in and out in 3 hours flat without ever dropping the subframe), so it's no surprise they're basing this on flat rate hours and the guy doing it will be done in 1/3 the time.
Anyway, best of luck with getting it sorted out now. Have the fluid analyzed, and if it truly is cooked (it should be by now no matter what) make sure they fully flush the cooler lines for both the oil/air and oil/water coolers used on the F. If they don't clean out the coolers, expect to have problem shortly after install. Any commercial application - stationary generator or marine engine - would require tossing the coolers and installing new clean units.
It's possible the TCM failed. It's possible there was a manufacturing defect in the reverse clutch and as the friction plates disintegrated they polluted the whole hydraulic system causing slow death for the rest of the gearbox. This could be completely UNRELATED to the fluid.
All you guys changing your fluid remind me of all the people who sell their motorcycles when a neighbor wrecks his. Knee jerk reaction based on nothing but emotion.
I don't think I'd accept Lexus's offer if it were me, especially when I can get a low mileage gearbox from a salvage yard. I'm also pretty confident an enterprising mechanic won't be dropping the engine (no, the engine does not come out from the top, it only drops below the car) just to change the gearbox. I've read lots of instructions in service manuals telling me all kinds of stupid stuff (like you have to drop the engine with the front subframe to do a clutch in a Scion tC - after the third Fidanza install, I had the gearbox in and out in 3 hours flat without ever dropping the subframe), so it's no surprise they're basing this on flat rate hours and the guy doing it will be done in 1/3 the time.
Anyway, best of luck with getting it sorted out now. Have the fluid analyzed, and if it truly is cooked (it should be by now no matter what) make sure they fully flush the cooler lines for both the oil/air and oil/water coolers used on the F. If they don't clean out the coolers, expect to have problem shortly after install. Any commercial application - stationary generator or marine engine - would require tossing the coolers and installing new clean units.
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2013FSport (08-06-17)
09-11-12, 09:50 PM
#148
Lexus Champion
Thread Starter
And with that said...who really knows why the gear box failed...but I'm sure if I'm one of the very few that has had this problem, I'm sure they'll be looking into it.
Did you already send your fluid in for analysis? When are you getting it back?
As far as accepting their offer, yeah, maybe I can go get a transmission cheaper from a yard, but again, more work, then finding someone that I can trust to do the work, and guarantee it...more work. Plus since this seems to be one of the first that we've heard about on Club Lexus, maybe it's best I pay them, and if something acts up, I can take it back.
If they charge me flat rate, then so be it, there's nothing I can do. If they get it done in 3 hours and they charged me 9...then oh well, that's how they make money. I used to be in the same business with servicing commercial printers. We charge people $150 per hour (which is higher than what the dealers are charging to service my car), and we also charge a minimum time on the service call such as 2 hours minimum. We show up...20 minute fix...oh well...We've already collected our $300.
Everyone is in the business of making money, and that's how the world works...if no one made anything for doing something, why bother doing it? I'll probably end up getting a Lexus as a loaner car too...something that maybe an independent shop can't offer and of course since this is a major thing, if something goes wrong, I can only hope that Lexus will step up to the plate and figure it out.
It's already looking slightly better because originally I was quoted about $1900 for the transmission installation and after speaking with the service manager at Crown Lexus, he says they can probably get it done within 9.5 hours, so it's looking like it's going to be $1100 for the installation. How they do it is up to them, as long as it's done right, that's all I care about. If it's less than $1900...GREAT...if it's more than $1100...that's fine too, because I was expecting to pay $1900.
I'll definitely take your advice as far as asking them to flush the lines that lead to the transmission oil cooler.
Did you already send your fluid in for analysis? When are you getting it back?
As far as accepting their offer, yeah, maybe I can go get a transmission cheaper from a yard, but again, more work, then finding someone that I can trust to do the work, and guarantee it...more work. Plus since this seems to be one of the first that we've heard about on Club Lexus, maybe it's best I pay them, and if something acts up, I can take it back.
If they charge me flat rate, then so be it, there's nothing I can do. If they get it done in 3 hours and they charged me 9...then oh well, that's how they make money. I used to be in the same business with servicing commercial printers. We charge people $150 per hour (which is higher than what the dealers are charging to service my car), and we also charge a minimum time on the service call such as 2 hours minimum. We show up...20 minute fix...oh well...We've already collected our $300.
Everyone is in the business of making money, and that's how the world works...if no one made anything for doing something, why bother doing it? I'll probably end up getting a Lexus as a loaner car too...something that maybe an independent shop can't offer and of course since this is a major thing, if something goes wrong, I can only hope that Lexus will step up to the plate and figure it out.
It's already looking slightly better because originally I was quoted about $1900 for the transmission installation and after speaking with the service manager at Crown Lexus, he says they can probably get it done within 9.5 hours, so it's looking like it's going to be $1100 for the installation. How they do it is up to them, as long as it's done right, that's all I care about. If it's less than $1900...GREAT...if it's more than $1100...that's fine too, because I was expecting to pay $1900.
I'll definitely take your advice as far as asking them to flush the lines that lead to the transmission oil cooler.
Last edited by Just F Me; 09-11-12 at 09:55 PM.
09-12-12, 04:44 AM
#149
Lead Lap
Problem one - no one in this thread knows WHY this gearbox failed. Despite this everyone is saying they're going to change their fluid. I'm not unless after spending my $20 on analysis there is a proven reason to change the fluid.
It's possible the TCM failed. It's possible there was a manufacturing defect in the reverse clutch and as the friction plates disintegrated they polluted the whole hydraulic system causing slow death for the rest of the gearbox. This could be completely UNRELATED to the fluid.
All you guys changing your fluid remind me of all the people who sell their motorcycles when a neighbor wrecks his. Knee jerk reaction based on nothing but emotion.
I don't think I'd accept Lexus's offer if it were me, especially when I can get a low mileage gearbox from a salvage yard. I'm also pretty confident an enterprising mechanic won't be dropping the engine (no, the engine does not come out from the top, it only drops below the car) just to change the gearbox. I've read lots of instructions in service manuals telling me all kinds of stupid stuff (like you have to drop the engine with the front subframe to do a clutch in a Scion tC - after the third Fidanza install, I had the gearbox in and out in 3 hours flat without ever dropping the subframe), so it's no surprise they're basing this on flat rate hours and the guy doing it will be done in 1/3 the time.
Anyway, best of luck with getting it sorted out now. Have the fluid analyzed, and if it truly is cooked (it should be by now no matter what) make sure they fully flush the cooler lines for both the oil/air and oil/water coolers used on the F. If they don't clean out the coolers, expect to have problem shortly after install. Any commercial application - stationary generator or marine engine - would require tossing the coolers and installing new clean units.
It's possible the TCM failed. It's possible there was a manufacturing defect in the reverse clutch and as the friction plates disintegrated they polluted the whole hydraulic system causing slow death for the rest of the gearbox. This could be completely UNRELATED to the fluid.
All you guys changing your fluid remind me of all the people who sell their motorcycles when a neighbor wrecks his. Knee jerk reaction based on nothing but emotion.
I don't think I'd accept Lexus's offer if it were me, especially when I can get a low mileage gearbox from a salvage yard. I'm also pretty confident an enterprising mechanic won't be dropping the engine (no, the engine does not come out from the top, it only drops below the car) just to change the gearbox. I've read lots of instructions in service manuals telling me all kinds of stupid stuff (like you have to drop the engine with the front subframe to do a clutch in a Scion tC - after the third Fidanza install, I had the gearbox in and out in 3 hours flat without ever dropping the subframe), so it's no surprise they're basing this on flat rate hours and the guy doing it will be done in 1/3 the time.
Anyway, best of luck with getting it sorted out now. Have the fluid analyzed, and if it truly is cooked (it should be by now no matter what) make sure they fully flush the cooler lines for both the oil/air and oil/water coolers used on the F. If they don't clean out the coolers, expect to have problem shortly after install. Any commercial application - stationary generator or marine engine - would require tossing the coolers and installing new clean units.
1- If the oil is low how would we EVER know without dropping the pan and refilling bc no meter or gauge of indication?
2 - If we wanted to test we still would have to drop pan?? and then possibly as said introduce contamination.
Im a bit flabbergasted...Im most likely going into the dealer and recording as well as getting everything requested documented on their network on my car profile when I ask them to service my tranny (This is just being precautious), and have saved all data on this post if transmission fails prematurely due to non misuse... I drive my car but everyone knows I let warm up properly, and only use M mode if need to allow the computer in my straight commutes to make the best decision possible...But believe me if I need M mode I use it, and if shifted properly, and even driven hard no leaks, and no everheating...The remark of low fluid in Just F Me's tranny is querky and I would sure like a deep exmination and report with a few engineers and experianced techs to get a very non convuluted and detailed answer of what may have caused the loss of fluid.... As well Just F Me would have to give a significant report to allocate found data into answers for failure..**This would be a remarkable solution, but ofcaorse may be far out there***
- I do know there was younger kid with under 10K on here the lost his trans from misuse..the only other case im familiar of...
Thus, with everything said...With all the F's out the im sure as cautious owners we are reacting in best way suit...But, seems to be a very strong platform im sure if we couldjust pull a dipstick to evaluate we wuld love the comfort..or even a level gauge on our cluster as a few porsches ive done paint correction to have had... I sure would like to be reashured ..lol.. dipstick please lexus
09-12-12, 05:07 AM
#150
I'm sorry to hear about the problem. If I were the owner, I would get Lexus to foot as much of the bill as possible--as was done here.
On the forum level, a lot of this seems overreactive and, in some regards, unrealistic in that this is unlikely to be epidemic for the "F".
I had the gearbox replaced in my RX at 110,000 miles. I drove the RX extremely hard on the interstates commuting from PA to MD for years. I beat it ...it's the ONLY problem that I ever had with the car, and it was MY fault. The rebuilt is running fine, and I will probably take the car to 150,000 if the cosmetics hold up--and they probably will.
The beast comes with 6 yr. / 70,000 mi. for the drivetrain. Given the class of car, the probability that owners are going to frequently push the car to or near the limits, track it, drag it..., I would say the warranty is quite fair.
We bought the cars to drive them hard and have fun. I don't doubt that there will be some undesirable maintenance along the way, but I do love the ride!
On the forum level, a lot of this seems overreactive and, in some regards, unrealistic in that this is unlikely to be epidemic for the "F".
I had the gearbox replaced in my RX at 110,000 miles. I drove the RX extremely hard on the interstates commuting from PA to MD for years. I beat it ...it's the ONLY problem that I ever had with the car, and it was MY fault. The rebuilt is running fine, and I will probably take the car to 150,000 if the cosmetics hold up--and they probably will.
The beast comes with 6 yr. / 70,000 mi. for the drivetrain. Given the class of car, the probability that owners are going to frequently push the car to or near the limits, track it, drag it..., I would say the warranty is quite fair.
We bought the cars to drive them hard and have fun. I don't doubt that there will be some undesirable maintenance along the way, but I do love the ride!