lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

The stock oil cooler is way undersized for track duty much as the same style cooler on the 2JZs is way undersized for track duty. They're both oil/water units, which, if the cooling system is adequately sized, brings the best of all worlds by heating the oil when the engine is cold and cooling the oil when it is hotter than the coolant. I'd like to see an oil cooler about twice the OEM size with the same oil/water configuration mostly because it takes forever to heat the full oil load in the 2UR - typically about 15 minutes in moderate weather, and 30 minutes in colder weather. I'm just not sure if this is possible.

Jowett

Sounds like a good canidate for preheating... coolant and possibly oil pan.

I've had good results in the past stacking a thermostatic oil cooler take off (for oil to air) on top of the factory liquid unit.

TrackLight

Just a quick question for FIGS and other track gurus looking to reduce brake fluid temperature - has anyone tried Hard Brakes' titanium pad shims/heat shields? They list a set of shims for the IS-F, part number TS-T-D1365.

I never found any info online about titanium pistons for the stock IS-F Brembos. That said I think the shims/shields would be much less expensive.

ERDoc74

great find and a great question! (although this is probably worthy of a dedicated thread itself)
I noticed after changing my track pads back to OEM pads 2 days ago for the winter and end of track season for me.... (after about 6 track days on these carbotech xp 10/8 pads) that the copper based brembo (high dollar from lexus) brake lubricant was GONE! cooked.. nonexistent and the the shims had a powdery rust colored residue between the pads and shims..... I had applied a nice thin layer on the entire shim surface when installed at the beginning of the season... when I originally changed from the OEM pads to the carbotech pads (after 2 track days on oem pads) this was not the case and the brake grease seemed slightly darker than new stuff, but ok.... LOBUX.. any comments? I'd like to know if these Ti backing plates/shims would be beneficial and if i should use a different brake pad grease such as the one suggested here.... (from the Ti backing plate site)http://hardbrakes.com/index.php?main...products_id=75

ming15237

iTrader: (3)

I for one have never heard or seen these ti pad shims, but will say I am fairly doubtfully of their effectiveness. I will say I have seen great success with people running air ducting directly to the brake rotors. This will add proven cooling to the brake rotors and help reduce the the heat transfer from the rotors to the caliper pistons. A good quality brake fluid will also go a long way in this area as well. The best brake lube I have ever seen is made by ACdelco and is simply a silicone brake lube, and is far superior to any other lube we have used to date.

TrackLight

Hi ERDoc - thank you for sharing your latest experience on the Carbontechs!

Ming - any reason why you don't think ti plates would work? I know they aren't the same as a titanium brake piston, but they are much, much less expensive from what I understand, and Porsche and Corvette club racers (maybe people with other makes as well) have run these off and one for awhile. I don't have before and after fluid temp data - and I probably won't volunteer to drain boiling brake fluid anytime soon - but I can see this slowing down the transfer of heat between the pad and the piston, and thus the fluid. Again though, I'd like to hear your thoughts.

On ductwork and fluid, you're preaching to the converted.

FIGS

iTrader: (11)

I am not sure what you want to get out of the backing plates...its just a slip shim to reduce noise...has no meaningful thermal mass. Ti is actually less thermally conductive than Aluminum..so again its not a means to lower brake temps. The only thing you can do to reduce temps is to increase thermal conductivity and get rid of the heat you are making. Ducting improves the gradient but there is plenty of radiated heat that is not even conducted. Caliper pistons made from stainless are more thermally conductive sure, but the piston surface area seems so small to me relative to the radiated exposure I have a hard time believing the effects would be profound. Yes they might be incremental but this may be on the scale of grams of weight savings compared to lbs. It all adds up but its splitting hairs.

BTW here is another site I found that has a little better perspective. I seriously doubt we have pad thickness margin to put in something thick enough to work.
http://www.seinesystems.com/BrakeFade-2.htm



I will say of our temp problems our water pump turned out to be leaking. I just got the car back today after getting it covered under warranty and will be looking into additional fluid cooling…brake fluid may be next as well. I had started on a controlled test up the same road with various test cases and cut it short when I pulled the lower cover and found leaking coolant.

We just fitted the rear rotors this past weekend and will continue to test with them in the system and see how things go.

ming15237

iTrader: (3)

I'm going to side with Figs on this one, but I will say outright that I have ZERO experience with these titanium brake shims. I find it very hard to believe that something as thin as a brake shim will reduce the heat transfer to the caliper piston and thus the fluid by a measurable level.
I believe Figs already stated that the shims are in place to prevent noise NOT to reduce heat transfer. Please keep in mind that something as simple as flexible duct from a clothes dryer is just as effective as the expensive concoctions available from some sites. the objective is simply to get cool fresh air to the rotors. Hope this helps.

TrackLight

Hi FIGS,

Thanks for the update and I'm glad to hear that the temp (water/engine) problem was sorted out.

On the backing plates, thank you for linking to Seine - that is probably the best explanation I have seen online. As to whether or not it works... I am definitely not the best person to answer that question . I do know that Brembo runs titanium brake pistons in many of their competition brakes, and Stoptech offers a titanium button for caliper pistons. As per this link, they say that this button at the end of the caliper piston does about "70% of the job" of a titanium piston at a much lower cost.

http://stoptech.com/technical-suppor...rade-selection

ming15237

iTrader: (3)

One other thing to mention in reference to these Ti brake backing plates. I am aware of the somewhat brittle qualities of titanium, given this fact I have seen cheap steel brake shims fail in the areas of the brake pads where the guide pins pass through the pads. what has then happened was that they slid down onto the hat of the rotor and actually cut the rotor hat in half. That being said track duty work is obviously much harder on the braking system of the vehicle than road use and all of these failures I have seen have been on road usage, NOT track incidents. I would be very diligent in checking that the shims remain in place all of the time and you do not have failures in the guide pin area of the shim. Here is a link to a you tube video that shows what I am referring to.