Lexus IS-F Discontinued
03-10-13, 07:21 PM
#76
It's very simplistic, but just like the above poster said, it's all about demand. Price doesn't automatically go up just because a car gets discontinued. The NSX and Supra are examples of cars that have somewhat of a cult following and are STILL highly desired by many enthusiasts. They stopped making the Neon SRT-4 and RSX-S, but those prices are still low because the demand really isn't there. Obviously the ISF if in a different class, but still, we don't know if it'll be more like the NSX or more like the RSX on the resale market.
I tend to think a V8 Lexus performance vehicle with over 400hp and an 8sp gearbox is something special and will be for years to come. I am not planning to change vehicles anytime soon at all, but when I get ready it'd be nice if the ISF has held its value well.
I tend to think a V8 Lexus performance vehicle with over 400hp and an 8sp gearbox is something special and will be for years to come. I am not planning to change vehicles anytime soon at all, but when I get ready it'd be nice if the ISF has held its value well.
03-11-13, 05:08 AM
#78
It's very simplistic, but just like the above poster said, it's all about demand. Price doesn't automatically go up just because a car gets discontinued. The NSX and Supra are examples of cars that have somewhat of a cult following and are STILL highly desired by many enthusiasts. They stopped making the Neon SRT-4 and RSX-S, but those prices are still low because the demand really isn't there. Obviously the ISF if in a different class, but still, we don't know if it'll be more like the NSX or more like the RSX on the resale market.
I tend to think a V8 Lexus performance vehicle with over 400hp and an 8sp gearbox is something special and will be for years to come. I am not planning to change vehicles anytime soon at all, but when I get ready it'd be nice if the ISF has held its value well.
I tend to think a V8 Lexus performance vehicle with over 400hp and an 8sp gearbox is something special and will be for years to come. I am not planning to change vehicles anytime soon at all, but when I get ready it'd be nice if the ISF has held its value well.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dodg...w=1920&bih=878
03-11-13, 05:57 AM
#79
They're bringing back the SRT4 via the Dodge Dart (in 2014 or 2015). The initial pics look really good. Still not getting rid of my F though.
https://www.google.com/search?q=dodg...w=1920&bih=878
https://www.google.com/search?q=dodg...w=1920&bih=878
The thing that is the most concerning is that stat that they sold less than 500 of them total last year. It makes you wonder what the demand for these cars really is. We're all a bit biased as owners, but what about everyone else?
03-11-13, 07:29 AM
#80
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My best guess is that they'll just stop producing the ISF for a couple of years and then bring it back at some point as well. This really isn't a contradiction to what many people already assumed anyway... it took Lexus a couple of years after releasing the 2IS to produce the ISF. If they release the "new" ISF after the 3IS has been on the market for a couple of years, that'll fit right in to their model. This will allow then to drum up the paranoia that the ISF is being discontinued, and then the hype about it "coming back" which should benefit Lexus on both ends.
The thing that is the most concerning is that stat that they sold less than 500 of them total last year. It makes you wonder what the demand for these cars really is. We're all a bit biased as owners, but what about everyone else?
The thing that is the most concerning is that stat that they sold less than 500 of them total last year. It makes you wonder what the demand for these cars really is. We're all a bit biased as owners, but what about everyone else?
03-11-13, 08:38 AM
#81
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http://www.interest.com/auto/news/car-prices-outpace-median-income/
Needless to say I was shocked and feel even more blessed.
03-11-13, 09:00 AM
#82
Then you have the younger guys and gals who aren't married and/or don't have kids yet. There are a lot of those enthusiasts here on CL that fit that demographic, but most of them can't really plop down upwards of $60K on a car quite yet, so they are largely looking on the used market for their ISF. Good for resale values, but not for new car sales.
Next you've got the group of people who are either empty-nesters, or at least whose kids are old enough that they are driving on their own to consider, can afford one or two nice cars, but not multiple high-dollar vehicles--- and this is probably the sweet spot for new ISF buyers. This is the group that is probably a bit more established financially, still has a need for 4 doors, but not an everyday need, and would be able to go buy a $65K car. This group is relatively small though, hence the sales figures.
Lastly, you have the pure car enthusiasts that have plenty of money and just want a cool car. This is the group that you have to convince they should buy a 4-door sedan rather than a coupe or roadster. I'm squarely in the family guy group so this isn't me, but if I didn't need 4 doors and I was going to spend $65K-$70K on a car, I'd be looking at something else... probably a used 911 or new Porsche Cayman S, or something else that is a little more nimble. Maybe even a used GTR. If I had the kind of money of say a ToothDoc or that other guy who has the 1M, M5, TT RS a couple of Porsches and is looking at a R8 just for kicks, I'd probably be rolling around in something like a GT3 or 911 Turbo S too.
The reality is that this is a hard segment for many car manufacturers to sell.
03-11-13, 01:27 PM
#85
Curious as to what the sales numbers are on the CTS-V. I think if Lexus quit trying to simply match the competition, and instead, blow it out of the water...they would hit a homerun. I see a lot of CTS-V's and I think Cadillac did it right. Not only did they blow away performance numbers on the likes of the IS-F, M3, C63, etc..., they were blowing away their big brothers for about the same price of the little brothers. If you're not going to do a GS-F, then make an IS-F with 550hp and call it a day. Give people a REASON to buy this car over the competition, while keeping it priced with the little brothers. This is just me thinking out loud, but I think it kinda makes sense.
03-11-13, 01:48 PM
#86
Lexus Champion
Wait till you see it on Lexus.com....as of right now, it's ALL speculation.
BMW and Mercedes are the only SERIOUS players in this market. The V is trying to make an impression, but isn't doing so well (I'm speculating because I don't see a lot of them). Here in CA you rarely see V cars. Then you have Audi RS4, but the RS4 is so damn expensive. It's 80k! OK...it has amazing AWD, but it's heavier, and has less power.
If Lexus wants to make a dent...CUT the BS and go for 500HP. This will make people want to buy it...powerful AND reliable. But as long as you have lunatic engineers working at AMG...They're always going to 1up everyone on power. Next gen C63 will probably have the same engine as the others...which is a 5.5L V8 Bi-Turbo...518HP with 516tq. That doesn't even have the AMG Development package yet!
BMW M (M=Marketing), has an extremely strong following. I would think that M probably outsold Lexus easily 5:1 and their 2014 M3 with a straight six TT is going to be very strong.
CarMax has almost 40 E90/E92 M3s for sale and only 8 IS Fs.
Curious as to what the sales numbers are on the CTS-V. I think if Lexus quit trying to simply match the competition, and instead, blow it out of the water...they would hit a homerun. I see a lot of CTS-V's and I think Cadillac did it right. Not only did they blow away performance numbers on the likes of the IS-F, M3, C63, etc..., they were blowing away their big brothers for about the same price of the little brothers. If you're not going to do a GS-F, then make an IS-F with 550hp and call it a day. Give people a REASON to buy this car over the competition, while keeping it priced with the little brothers. This is just me thinking out loud, but I think it kinda makes sense.
If Lexus wants to make a dent...CUT the BS and go for 500HP. This will make people want to buy it...powerful AND reliable. But as long as you have lunatic engineers working at AMG...They're always going to 1up everyone on power. Next gen C63 will probably have the same engine as the others...which is a 5.5L V8 Bi-Turbo...518HP with 516tq. That doesn't even have the AMG Development package yet!
BMW M (M=Marketing), has an extremely strong following. I would think that M probably outsold Lexus easily 5:1 and their 2014 M3 with a straight six TT is going to be very strong.
CarMax has almost 40 E90/E92 M3s for sale and only 8 IS Fs.
03-11-13, 01:55 PM
#87
You know what's a good sales tactic? Keeping people guessing. People like everyone here...thinking about what to do and what not to do. But what about people that like the new 3G IS look? Then they go buy the 2014 IS350 F-Sport...then later they release a 2015 IS F...people then sell their F-sport car and buy a IS F. This is basic sales 101...extending product life cycle.
Look at blitz_714....he had a IS350, then he got an IS F...they sold him two cars because he liked the car so much. However, I'm not sure if he KNEW there was an IS F coming out or not...I think when they released the IS in 2006...there was talk, but no one knew, then it came out.
How many people on here have upgraded from an IS250/350 to IS F? I bet more than a handful...and that's only people on the forum.
Look at blitz_714....he had a IS350, then he got an IS F...they sold him two cars because he liked the car so much. However, I'm not sure if he KNEW there was an IS F coming out or not...I think when they released the IS in 2006...there was talk, but no one knew, then it came out.
How many people on here have upgraded from an IS250/350 to IS F? I bet more than a handful...and that's only people on the forum.
On a sidenote...not me, I went from a 97' Carolla to the IS-F. Man I miss the drivability of the carolla....required no driver input at all haha, while the IS-F requires full attention at all times.
But on a serious note, again you are right about the upgrade patterns. I have read numerous threads about IS250/350 to ISF upgrades.
Good stuff man
03-11-13, 01:59 PM
#88
Lexus really needs to market the F as both reliable AND powerful, after increasing the power of the engine. Ask 100 car-smart people the first aspect that comes to mind when someone mentions "Lexus".....I'm sure 90 of them will say reliability or luxury, not performance. But if Lexus promotes reliability AND performance, I think they will have a better chance of selling the F.
03-11-13, 02:15 PM
#89
I think another advantage the comp has is a coupe. M3, C63, CTS-V, and Audi all have coupe versions, while Lexus is still stuck with the 4 door option only. Also, some of those guys offer an MT as well. Just more options with the competition that Lexus doesn't have. I think the current IS-F was a wonderful start, but it really needs to be expanded on to get the sales numbers up. They basically build one car that needs to fulfill the needs of everyone shopping. Not enough options IMO. The CTS-V covers all those bases with 150 more HP and about the same cost. Now combine all that with luxury and reliability and look what you've created!
03-11-13, 02:44 PM
#90
Lexus really needs to market the F as both reliable AND powerful, after increasing the power of the engine. Ask 100 car-smart people the first aspect that comes to mind when someone mentions "Lexus".....I'm sure 90 of them will say reliability or luxury, not performance. But if Lexus promotes reliability AND performance, I think they will have a better chance of selling the F.