kbtoiz

iTrader: (4)

Mine is a daily driver as well and get driven in weather also. Oh, I dont have a garage


Thats cool you are into detail and understand, Im new to it and still lots to learn. But the person detailing my car HAD to be a professional and PROVEN. The guy I went all he does is exotic cars. He got skills, knowledge and experience, something I dont have and didnt found elsewere. So, I really think Im paying for those things. Also, he cleaned the engine, steamed seats, trunk, inside the wheels, he didnt polish the wheels but he is going to remove the swirls on them when he get back and put 22ple on them.

I will post some later cuz the detailer left today for a Bentley and Royce autoshow in San Antonio to detail like 15 cars before it starts.

Anyway, I dont wanna highjack the OP thread. Sorry OP

vbb

iTrader: (3)

I guess I don't care about my car as much as I thought it did. I like to keep it looking nice, but not $1K detail job nice!

I'll save that kind of job for my 458 (note: I don't actually have a 458 ). I do think that sports cars look the best in black, so that requires some level of **** retentiveness... but I just don't think my ISF warrants that level of care. Of course my paint did not and does not look as rough as the OP's "before" pictures either.

WebSoCal

iTrader: (4)

More pics please!!! I'm getting my car a professional detail too and want to know the market))

zapa

Yes I have spent some serious time and money trying to get better and better. If you have any questions hit me up. Since the guy you took it to is well established and only does exotic cars he gets to raise his prices because if you dont pay it there is always another rich guy with a lambo who will pay it.

In my experience some rich people think that if it's not expensive then it's not good. His skills are really worth what people are willing to pay him and in his case that is a lot. On the other hand 22ple is a very very expensive product. Enough product for one car alone is like $80 plus the micro fiber and applicator you have to throw out after using it.

Brisman

Yep, it's $AU800, so probably about the same in US.

Back when the exchange was normal (0.7), this would equate to $US560.00. Unfortunately, the prices for service work doesn't go down because our exchange rate improved.

The rate for the detailer was $60 p/hr. It was around 14 hours work, I think this is how it went and it sounds about right to me.

Wash and Dry
Claybar
Polishing, Stages (3?) not sure how many.
Wipe down to remove polishing residue,
Polish Bonding agent applied.
Polished,
Waxed.

I won't have this done all the time but the car was nearly three years old and it was worth doing.

The paint did look better than when it was new, My paint was in a bad way, interestingly it's been 7 months since I've had it done and when washed the paint still has a great shine to it although there is a wee bit of marring here and there from washing.

As above, rates here in Oz are around $60 p/hour. To be honest 4-5 hours to wash polish and protect sounds very very quick.


Hi, tons of pics on the linked thread in the opening post.

Here's a comparison shot of the drivers door before and after, the pics really don't do it justice.

zapa

For a one step polish and not even touching the interior of the car 4-5 hours is about spot on. There are a few things that allow me to do it "very very quick". I dont own a legit shop so I dont have to spend time taking pictures of the car while I'm doing it and I dont have to stop and pick up the phone and talk to people. I also use a Flex XC3401 Vrg which saves about 30 min a car compared to using a PC or megs polisher. The third thing is I use opti-seal as my protectant step. You put the stuff on and does not have to be buffed off.

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

^Just FYI - all of those defects shown in the pics and thread you posted are most likely from improper washing and drying - not anything 'caught in the pad' that the previous detailer had used.

Please refer to this article for proper washing and drying methods to help prevent swirls and scratches on your delicate paint.

^Lexus paint is extremely soft and difficult to work with. It requires extra time and attention in order to finish down perfectly because it is so soft. The price listed is reasonable.

^Amen.

^Price is very dependent on your local economy... either way $35/hour would be very cheap labor for someone who has their own shop, employees, etc. Full correction in 4-5 hours? Sounds like you are rushing to me... I bet the customer would appreciate you taking an extra 2 hours to take your time and pay extra attention to every detail rather than having their car back to them ASAP - at least that has been my experience.

Your comment about "I do exactly what the customer asks of me if you want a 5 stage okay you got it" really bothers me. Being a professional, as you claim to be, you should take the time to educate your customers on what their car NEEDS and not what they think they need. 5 polishing steps? I would not let anyone talk me into that. GOLDEN RULE OF PAINT CORRECTION: Start with the least aggressive method first!

This was after just 2 steps... this car was trashed... 2 steps corrected 90% of the defects. Absolutely no need for further polishing on a daily driven vehicle where CC thickness is crucial.


^You are correct... those who are not familiar with the process do not understand the amount of time, work, and skill that goes into this.

Referring to Todd Cooperider of Esoteric Detailing by chance?

zapa

I am not doing a full correction in 4-5 hours just a single stage polish. I have had a few guys come up to me and tell me exactly what they want done so I do it. I always give my recommendation you can ask VBB about that one but if they dont want my recommendation I do what they say.

Here is a picture of a BMW that had not been polished in 3 years and had 43000 miles on it. It was all swirled up. I suggested a three stage polish but the customer did not want to pay that much. So I had to do a single stage. I used menzerna SI1500 with an orange lake country pad.

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

It is fine to always do less, but not OK to do more IMO... meaning if you recommend a 2 step, and the customer can afford a 1 step... just do the best job you can to fit their budget. If you do a test spot and suggest a 2 step, but the customer wants you to wet sand... you need to cut your losses and not risk it just to give the uneducated client what he/she thinks they need.

Your photo is a perfect example of what can be done with the least aggressive method... it clearly looks like you did not need to do a 3 step, maybe 2 step if you wanted to chase a few of the deeper scratches (due to the color of the car, you didn't need to be as picky as if it were black), but it seems that your 1 step produced fantastic results, so had you chosen to go with a 3 step all you would have been doing is removing valuable clear coat for no real reason.... make sense?

I always recommend the customer allow me to do a test spot while they are present to show them the results to expect from a 1 step... if they are not happy, I will proceed with a 2 step to show them the difference. While it is your job to make the car shiny and remove some defects, you must also have the ethics to think about the future of the car in that while you could do a 3 step process to make the paint nearly flawless... would it be worth it for a DD? Chances are the answer is no. The car will continue to take a beating from the abuse that comes with being driven daily, so chances are the car will need future correction later in it's life in which case the more clear coat that is remaining, the better off the car will be and the more likely you will have a future customer and you will not have to worry about damaging the car in the future.

Just my 2 cents.

zapa

Thank you for you input I am always looking to learn more about detailing. If I was going to do a 3 step polish I would have started with a less aggressive set up. So I would be taking off about the same amount of clear coat but doing it with finer polishes. In my experience this has always yielded me the best results.

"but the customer wants you to wet sand... you need to cut your losses and not risk it just to give the uneducated client what he/she thinks they need."

So would you tell the customer you wet sanded when you really did not. To me lying that you did something that you did not do is a very easy way to get yourself in trouble. I don't know if I am miss understanding what you said or if thats what you meant.

also if one does a 5 step polish(which I do agree is crazy) now in days it is easy enough to add more layers of protection that last a very long time. A few that come to mind are Opti-Coat and 22ple. I will be applying 22ple to my car once some new paint finishes in two months.

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

^That does not make sense? Unless you strictly mean you would be doing an identical process as a 2 step, but only adding a 3rd final finishing step? In which case I find it hard to believe that would ever really be necessary unless you are using "rocks in a bottle" as your compound. Products these days (even the aggressive ones like M105) finish down extremely well with proper technique, and can almost always be made perfect with just one additional finishing polish.

^No, I would tell the customer that I was not comfortable with what they were requesting and I believed it would cause more harm than good, so they would need to find someone else to do the work for them. Don't get me wrong, there are times when wet sanding may be needed, but that is another story. What I am getting at is that if a customer demanded I do something that I did not believe to be the appropriate course of action, I would tell them no. It is simply not worth the risk most of the time.

^Opti-Coat claims to add approximately 2 microns of thickness to your vehicle's surface... I would estimate that on an average car, a compound with a cutting pad will remove 4-5 microns of material (very much dependent on # of passes, pressure, products, etc), so you are really not adding much of anything in terms of thickness when it comes to coating the car... but yes, every little bit does help in the long run... which is why it is easiest just to be less aggressive in the first place.

zapa

Let me explain that better I have found that if I want to get the best results possible I start with a less agressive setup and but add more polishing steps working my way down in aggressiveness. Say there is a car with a ton of swirls and a few pretty deep scratches. If I only have a single stage I normally go with IS 1500. If I can do a two step I normally like go with PF 2500 and the finish with SF-4500. Comes out amazing. My three step I like to go with is IP-2000 then Micro Polish followed by SF-4500. In my opinion the three step the shiniest especially when followed by a layer of sealant than a layer of wax. So the more polishing steps I am going to do the less aggressive I start with.

Okay I get what you are saying now.

Yes I agree to always start with the least aggressive and I was not aware that opti-coat added around 2 microns thanks for the new info. In theory though that coating last the life of the car so you would only have to polish the car that one time so you might as well make it perfect.

zmcgovern4

iTrader: (2)

^Sounds like time wasting... but I don't want to debate it further. All I will say is that with proper technique, it is often possible to finish down even an aggressive polish to the point that you will only need to follow up with something like SF4500 for a perfect finish... so 3 steps are few and far between for me... mostly 1 and 2 step jobs. It seems like you enjoy Menzerna products - pick up some FG400 and get rid of that SI 1500.

^In theory OC2.0 will last the life of your car, correct... however it does not make the surface bullet proof. 99% of the time the customer will introduce swirls back into the finish within a couple of years or less and will need to be polished again. If it were a show car and was never going to be touched or driven... sure, knock yourself out and polish away.

zapa

Yes I think they are very good products. They are a bit on the expensive side. I have never used FG400 but I will pick some up when I am restocking soon. Thanks

choiceISF

Wow, wish i had this when I had my ISF