Bushing options
#19
By the way, one thing that I have forgotten to mention in my posts is that our housings are modeled after the +20 high caster Lexus housing. I have seen guys go out and buy the high caster OEM housings and then press in the superpro bushing.... with our design, you save a ton of time and $$ as you get our high caster housing (which is actually much stronger than OEM) and the bushing all in one ready-to-go package.
Also, when you install our USRS kit, you need to preload the bushing with the side adjusters you see in the pic.... that effectively pushes the control arm forward a bit and increases caster a bit more.
But most importantly, the biggest improvement in caster is not that you gain static caster... its that *you do not loose caster* when you are cornering or trail braking.
Rafi
Also, when you install our USRS kit, you need to preload the bushing with the side adjusters you see in the pic.... that effectively pushes the control arm forward a bit and increases caster a bit more.
But most importantly, the biggest improvement in caster is not that you gain static caster... its that *you do not loose caster* when you are cornering or trail braking.
Rafi
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#22
We would like to do a group buy later in the summer, its just that we currently have a limited supply available (we will soon have plenty of bushings, but the aluminum housings take a long time to make).
Rafi
Rafi
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#23
Hi.... Well we did most of our development testing using 88 durometer bushing, and I can say emphatically that there was no detectable increase in NVH. Our polyurethane casting supplier also sent us some 95 durometer bushings for testing. When I went to the test the stiffer 95 durometer bushing, I was surprised that it too was totally smooth with no obvious NVH problems, so our production batch which arrives next week will be all 95 durometer.
The turn response with our bushing is phenomenal, but one of the biggest improvements is under braking. Our first time at VIR, we were running 150mph on the back straight and 140mph on the front straight into the braking zones, and I can tell you the car was wandering under heavy braking due to the toe changes induced during braking (it also chewed the insides of the front tires). If you look at the stock bushing design, it allows fore/aft movement, whereas ours utilizes a high strength thrust washer, redesigned bushing, and significantly beefed up 6061-T6 housing to resist the massive thrust loads that you get under braking.
We designed a new housing because we did not feel comfortable enough reusing the stock housing, knowing that it was not designed with the intent of taking all the thrust loads it would see with our new design. If you look at the stock housings closely, you will see that they are extruded from aluminum so that the grain alignment end up parallel to the thrust load. Extruding the final shape of the housing makes it cheap for Lexus to produce, but its not good if you are worried about long term durability/fatigue issues with the redesign we wanted. So in addition to significantly beefing up the cross section of the housing, we also machined the housing so that the grain flow would be perpendicular to the applied thrust load.
Designing a bushing/housing system also makes it easier to install, so that folks would not have to press out the stock bushing. So once you install our USRS, you can throw the stock LCA bushing in the garbage where it belongs:-)
Lastly, our USRS for the lower control arm is 100% made in the USA, from the design, material sourcing, to the manufacturing, this is very important to us in order to maintain quality, and for other reasons.
Rafi
The turn response with our bushing is phenomenal, but one of the biggest improvements is under braking. Our first time at VIR, we were running 150mph on the back straight and 140mph on the front straight into the braking zones, and I can tell you the car was wandering under heavy braking due to the toe changes induced during braking (it also chewed the insides of the front tires). If you look at the stock bushing design, it allows fore/aft movement, whereas ours utilizes a high strength thrust washer, redesigned bushing, and significantly beefed up 6061-T6 housing to resist the massive thrust loads that you get under braking.
We designed a new housing because we did not feel comfortable enough reusing the stock housing, knowing that it was not designed with the intent of taking all the thrust loads it would see with our new design. If you look at the stock housings closely, you will see that they are extruded from aluminum so that the grain alignment end up parallel to the thrust load. Extruding the final shape of the housing makes it cheap for Lexus to produce, but its not good if you are worried about long term durability/fatigue issues with the redesign we wanted. So in addition to significantly beefing up the cross section of the housing, we also machined the housing so that the grain flow would be perpendicular to the applied thrust load.
Designing a bushing/housing system also makes it easier to install, so that folks would not have to press out the stock bushing. So once you install our USRS, you can throw the stock LCA bushing in the garbage where it belongs:-)
Lastly, our USRS for the lower control arm is 100% made in the USA, from the design, material sourcing, to the manufacturing, this is very important to us in order to maintain quality, and for other reasons.
Rafi
BTW we have nearly every bushing for the car currently, including the #1 inner LCA bushing which was recently released. There is only one bushing in the rear and subframe that we do not address, mostly due to necessity and demand.
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Redefining Lexus Aftermarket Parts Since 2001
-- We are your Lexus suspension experts--
BCR - KW - PENSKE - OHLINS - HKS - GREDDY - STANCEPARTS
Links - Arms - SuperPro Poly Bushings - Solid Bearing Conversions - Motor Mounts
RB BBK's and 2P Rotors, G-Loc pads, Radium Fuel Systems
Custom Fabrication Design and Machining - Industrial 3D Printing - Laser Cutting
2018 USTCC Sportsman Class Champions - 2018 NASA ST5 National Champions
#24
I appreciate the competition, but I think you are reaching a bit when it comes to the factory bracket vs and aftermarket version and its structure. I would not add too much more caster being a lowered F has caster gain as is. Sitting over 9 degrees and steering response is where it need to be. We have never seen any issues with the factory bracket and our bushings coming with a lifetime 0 exclusion on use warranty. The reason being is that there are very few claims.
BTW we have nearly every bushing for the car currently, including the #1 inner LCA bushing which was recently released. There is only one bushing in the rear and subframe that we do not address, mostly due to necessity and demand.
BTW we have nearly every bushing for the car currently, including the #1 inner LCA bushing which was recently released. There is only one bushing in the rear and subframe that we do not address, mostly due to necessity and demand.
I respectfully disagree with you about the caster. We have not found any negative side effects of the additional caster, only improvements in steering feel and weight. Plus we are talking about 0.25-0.5deg change, which is not drastic by any means.
-Rafi
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Last edited by RRRacing; 06-12-15 at 12:17 PM. Reason: comment about caster
#25
Hey Figs, I agree that there is nothing wrong with the factory bracket if you are using a bushing that does not see significant thrust loading. Our design is completely different and warranted a redesign of the housing for piece of mind, ease of installation, and additional surface area to accommodated a thrust loaded poly bushing.
I respectfully disagree with you about the caster. We have not found any negative side effects of the additional caster, only improvements in steering feel and weight. Plus we are talking about 0.25-0.5deg change, which is not drastic by any means.
-Rafi
I respectfully disagree with you about the caster. We have not found any negative side effects of the additional caster, only improvements in steering feel and weight. Plus we are talking about 0.25-0.5deg change, which is not drastic by any means.
-Rafi
Just in case anyone needs further explanation between our USRS LCS bushing and the status quo, here is an illustration (utilizing my fabulous artistic talent:-)
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#27
#28
I'd like to say that it is great to have two parts makers in FIGS and RRRacing that are both well educated, track dedicated, and committed to the mission of improving an already fantastic car. The consumer is the winner here, and just like the folks at PPE and Sikky have been in friendly competition with each other, I hope the same is true for FIGS and RRRacing.
I'll be monitoring these threads closely to make sure nothing other than technical discussion and friendly competition talk is going on. While I know the good folks at FIGS and RR wouldn't bash or attack each other, I don't want to have other members that may have some allegiance to one or the other doing it either. It hasn't gone that way yet in this thread or any others, but I just wanted to make sure that it won't.
Now, as for personal experience, I met Rafi and Simon at the meet we just had, and was impressed with both their technical knowledge and manufacturing quality. FIGS has been a LONG time supporter of our community and has also been an active forum member, willing to answer any question that the end user has. Their customer support has been the gold standard, and I look forward to the same from RRRacing.
Carry on!
I'll be monitoring these threads closely to make sure nothing other than technical discussion and friendly competition talk is going on. While I know the good folks at FIGS and RR wouldn't bash or attack each other, I don't want to have other members that may have some allegiance to one or the other doing it either. It hasn't gone that way yet in this thread or any others, but I just wanted to make sure that it won't.
Now, as for personal experience, I met Rafi and Simon at the meet we just had, and was impressed with both their technical knowledge and manufacturing quality. FIGS has been a LONG time supporter of our community and has also been an active forum member, willing to answer any question that the end user has. Their customer support has been the gold standard, and I look forward to the same from RRRacing.
Carry on!
#29
The OEM bushing does not require preloading because it does not directly take up any thrust loading. When you hit the brakes, the lower control arm wants to stay where it is, and the rest of the car pushes up against the two lower control arm bushings, causing relative movement of the chassis and the control arm, which causes all kinds of toe and alignment changes.
When you install our bushing, you need to preload it against the thrust washer prior to tightening the two large bolts that hold the LCA bushing housing to the chassis. The basic procedure is that you install the bushing, lightly tighten the two housing bolts, then tighten the 2 preload adjusters until you can barely insert a feeler gauge between the thrust washer and the poly bushing. Last step is to tighten the two housing bolts to the final torque spec.
-Rafi
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