Anyone have experience with the RR Racing Air/Oil Separator
#241
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Until someone can show me improved KCLV with the AOS, I'm not convinced it does anything useful. Maybe if you followed the factory recommendations for break-in and permanently screwed your engine it will help, but if you have good ring seal, I don't see where the AOS does anything useful.
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Does your engine normally burn oil between changes? If you are filling a catch can that quickly, it really sounds like the oil control rings are not doing their job.
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Until someone can show me improved KCLV with the AOS, I'm not convinced it does anything useful. Maybe if you followed the factory recommendations for break-in and permanently screwed your engine it will help, but if you have good ring seal, I don't see where the AOS does anything useful.
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TIS has a spec. Where your engine fell is a matter of production tolerances. Hard to say, but I would suspect some engines are worse than others just like all production engines.
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I did some detective work tonight and discovered something very interesting. The IS F and RC F have the same ring end gap specs through all model years available on TIS. The GS F has different, and much tighter specs from 2016 to present. See attachments. Now - does the GS F's tighter spec eliminate the need for a catch can? It surely might. For the not so faint of heart, it might make sense to retrofit GS F pistons and rings into an IS F block for more power (only a tiny bit) and for less blowby (maybe a lot). Notice the standard gap on the oil control ring is HALF what the IS F and RC F specify. That's very significant for oil control!
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The best way to reduce AOS intake at track days is to (1) run oil cooler to reduce oil temps, (2) keep the level about 3/4 on the dip stock, and (3) use higher viscosity oil like 5w40.
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#249
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Including the two track days in the TX heat (ten 20 min sessions in total), I'm down about half a quart in 6k miles. I'll probably settle on 8-10k OCI's pending UOA feedback.
Edit: FWIW, it was previously a 1-owner car, that I'd verified, through the Lexus maintenance database, got regular 5k changes at Lexus w/full synthetic.
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Its normal to fill up the AOS. Lets say you do 4 track sessions and fill up oil to say about 1/5 quart... that is not something you would notice on the dip stick. Also, the oil that accumulates in the AOS is not clean... you will find its black, so its not just oil, but consists of blow-by, fuel wash, moisture, and volatile contaminants that vaporize at high oil temps.
The best way to reduce AOS intake at track days is to (1) run oil cooler to reduce oil temps, (2) keep the level about 3/4 on the dip stock, and (3) use higher viscosity oil like 5w40.
Rafi
The best way to reduce AOS intake at track days is to (1) run oil cooler to reduce oil temps, (2) keep the level about 3/4 on the dip stock, and (3) use higher viscosity oil like 5w40.
Rafi
Agree oil temps probably have a big impact. At said CoTA track days, I actually went into limp mode during my middle session due to high oil and coolant temps. Think I even had a message about high transmission temps. Hope I didn't cook my ATF... I thankfully sourced a used RR Racing oil cooler here and will definitely have it installed before next summer.
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I did some detective work tonight and discovered something very interesting. The IS F and RC F have the same ring end gap specs through all model years available on TIS. The GS F has different, and much tighter specs from 2016 to present. See attachments. Now - does the GS F's tighter spec eliminate the need for a catch can? It surely might. For the not so faint of heart, it might make sense to retrofit GS F pistons and rings into an IS F block for more power (only a tiny bit) and for less blowby (maybe a lot). Notice the standard gap on the oil control ring is HALF what the IS F and RC F specify. That's very significant for oil control!
I also like their if/then tree - "If the gap is too large, replace the rings... if still too large, replace the block." lol.
#252
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I got the RR racing AOS a couple months ago. I don't track my car and I drive spirited every now and then and I too had the oil pool up right at the edge of the PCV like all the other ISF pics, not a lot but it is indeed there. Got the AOS and it does have some build up inside but not as much as the guys who track their ISF
But no way I could do a break in on a car I got used or known if it was an issue prior too. So ill say its working so far
But no way I could do a break in on a car I got used or known if it was an issue prior too. So ill say its working so far
Last edited by jdmSW20; 11-27-17 at 01:58 PM.
#253
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Also arguably, use an oil with lower NOACK volatility value...and as I'd learned the hard way, mind that AOS fill level!!!
Agree oil temps probably have a big impact. At said CoTA track days, I actually went into limp mode during my middle session due to high oil and coolant temps. Think I even had a message about high transmission temps. Hope I didn't cook my ATF... I thankfully sourced a used RR Racing oil cooler here and will definitely have it installed before next summer.
Agree oil temps probably have a big impact. At said CoTA track days, I actually went into limp mode during my middle session due to high oil and coolant temps. Think I even had a message about high transmission temps. Hope I didn't cook my ATF... I thankfully sourced a used RR Racing oil cooler here and will definitely have it installed before next summer.
Also, the oil recommendations floating around this site are not all they're cracked up to be. You might want to take a look at https://540ratblog.wordpress.com/201...-test-ranking/ before running Mobil 1 EP over standard M1. It doesn't provide anywhere near the same protection. I am regretting putting M1 EP in my two engines for this reason. I've already seen issues with cam lobe wear in my 2UR and that was running standard M1.
Last edited by lobuxracer; 11-22-17 at 04:50 PM.
#254
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Fascinating reading! As a mechanical PE myself, that guy impresses the snot out of me. I'd also wager he's somewhere on "the spectrum" to put that much time and energy into something so... finite... and yet outside his actual profession. That's to say, he argues he is the most qualified person to rank oils and yet isn't a tribologist by trade. I wonder what Terry Dyson thinks of his work.
That said, he's clear to point out his rating system represents a snapshot in time with new oil. M1EP is designed to be a long-fill oil, meaning its ranking vs regular M1 may very well flip on its head after 5k miles or perhaps even a few hot track sessions. To be fair, this is my interpretation after just skimming for 15 minutes. As much as I'd love to read about PCMO all Turkey Day, at some point I have to be more focused on peanut oil and fry a damn 25lb turkey!!
Interesting observation re: regular M1 and your cam wear btw. Was it a flavor that did well on his chart?
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
-Nick
PS - yes there very well might be something wrong with the car, as the person who sold me my oil cooler did so because the dealer found what was "really wrong" with his cooling issues just after he'd installed it. I've also read of others here having heat issues in hot climates after most power-adders are tacked on. I'll note it was much more an issue at CoTA than Harris Hill despite similar air temps.
That said, he's clear to point out his rating system represents a snapshot in time with new oil. M1EP is designed to be a long-fill oil, meaning its ranking vs regular M1 may very well flip on its head after 5k miles or perhaps even a few hot track sessions. To be fair, this is my interpretation after just skimming for 15 minutes. As much as I'd love to read about PCMO all Turkey Day, at some point I have to be more focused on peanut oil and fry a damn 25lb turkey!!
Interesting observation re: regular M1 and your cam wear btw. Was it a flavor that did well on his chart?
Happy Thanksgiving everyone!
-Nick
PS - yes there very well might be something wrong with the car, as the person who sold me my oil cooler did so because the dealer found what was "really wrong" with his cooling issues just after he'd installed it. I've also read of others here having heat issues in hot climates after most power-adders are tacked on. I'll note it was much more an issue at CoTA than Harris Hill despite similar air temps.
Last edited by Leander311; 11-23-17 at 09:39 AM.
#255
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What appears to be recent M1 is in the highest category. M1 EP is not even close.
11. 5W30 Mobil 1, Advanced Full Synthetic, API SN, GM dexos 1 approved = 117,799 psi
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This was the latest current version of this oil when tested at the end of 2015. This oil is used by a number of Auto Makers worldwide as factory fill oil in their High Performance cars. The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. And this oil did have a disappointing 36% drop in capability. At that reduced value down to 75,861 psi, this much hotter and thinner oil dropped down to the GOOD Wear Protection Category. You can avoid such a drop in capability by keeping the oil at a more reasonable cooler temperature.
zinc = TBD
phos = TBD
moly = TBD
This was the latest current version of this oil when tested at the end of 2015. This oil is used by a number of Auto Makers worldwide as factory fill oil in their High Performance cars. The psi value of this oil, which came from testing it at the normal operating test temperature of 230*F, put it in the INCREDIBLE Wear Protection Category.However, I went on to also test this oil at the much higher temperature of 275*F. At that elevated temperature, any hotter and thinner oil is expected to experience a drop in Wear Protection Capability. And this oil did have a disappointing 36% drop in capability. At that reduced value down to 75,861 psi, this much hotter and thinner oil dropped down to the GOOD Wear Protection Category. You can avoid such a drop in capability by keeping the oil at a more reasonable cooler temperature.
114. 5W30 Mobil 1 Extended Performance 15,000 mile, API SN synthetic = 83,263 psi
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm
zinc = 890 ppm
phos = 819 ppm
moly = 104 ppm
I’ve also “wear tested” a number of oils, both synthetic and conventional, when they were used with 5,000 miles on them. And in every case, even though those oils had been subjected to heat and stress over a significant length of time, there was NO REDUCTION what so ever, in wear protection capability, even though the zinc levels had dropped by around 25% on average. So, this is even further proof that the zinc level is not tied to a motor oil’s wear protection capability, as well as absolute proof and validation that testing new oils is representative of what we can expect from those oils as they accumulate time and miles on them.