mikersoft

iTrader: (1)

I'll be attending the RR Racing sponsored event on 9/12. I run Project Mu NS400 pads for daily driving so I'll need something more appropriate for the track.

Since my OEM pads did OK at Summit Point Main, I thought I'd slap them back on & use them up. However, after another look, I don't know if they'd last the entire weekend including the drive to/from NJMP from Virginia. Plus, I now have some more power (exhaust), and better tires (Michelin PSS 235/265), so the OEM pads may not cut it.

Based on CL posts from RR Racing + the recommendation on their website, I may go with the Hawk HP-Plus/DTC30 combo (total cost ~$387). Thoughts on this set-up? They'd be for track events only. I'll put the Project Mu pads back on afterwards.

-Mike

Compthis

iTrader: (1)

Grab a new set of front Brembo rotors from EBay nice and cheap, Carbotech xp12's and swap your fluid with endless 650. This is what I run and the stopping power is amazing.

I8ABMR

I agree. The brembos are hard to beat. I just picked up front and rears for about 60% of what the dealer would sell them for by just buying Brembo rotors for the ISF on amazon. I still run oem brembo pads because I dont want to deal with noise of track pads on the street. I had Hawk pads on my G35 and they were great AND quiet . If I run tracks that are higher speed then I will leave the oem pads but from research its pretty hard to beat the oem rotors from Brembo

mikersoft

iTrader: (1)

I'm not in the market for rotors yet. I just need some track-worthy pads for occasional use. Based on my previous track day with OEM pads, and how much less bite these Project Mu pads have in comparison, I wouldn't dare use them on a track.

I'd feel ok running OEM pads at the track again, but I think mine are too worn for a weekend trip to NJ + 4 track sessions (photos in OP). If I'm going to be spending the money for a track only set of pads, I think the OEMs are too pricey. I'd rather get something that performs better for similar or less money.

-Mike

JDMV8

iTrader: (6)

I can tell you one thing for sure: don't use the ns400 pads.
Brake response diminishes fast with spirited driving.

Compthis

iTrader: (1)

The reason why I suggested rotors is because in most cases, different pad materials do not like to mix. It's better to run a pad on a rotor that another pad hasn't touched.

SpeedFreaksUSA

iTrader: (1)

If you are partial towards HAWK then DTC-60 or 70 are the most appropriate compounds for track use. However they only offer those compounds in the front pad shape and not the rear. The problem with this is that these cars are already pretty heavily front biased and staggering the compounds like that will push the balance even more forward. It may not be too big of an issue for some but depending on your driving ability you may prefer the balance of running the same compound front and rear.

Project Mu Club racers are an excellent track compound and would be compatible with the transfer layer from the NS400 and vice versa. They are a bit more expensive than other options but should offer longer life on track than other popular track options.

Carbotech's XP10 and XP12 compounds have also been wildly popular with the IS-F crowd since they are very competitively priced and the dust is a lot less likely to cause problems than pretty much any aggressive HAWK pad compound.

Please feel free to send a PM or give me a call at (888) 263-1842 if you want to discuss some options in greater detail!

-Matt M.

mikersoft

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the info, Matt. I'm not partial toward Hawk or any other particular brand. I just want something that will perform well at the track (including street use to/from track) that won't break the bank.

Since you and Compthis mentioned compatibility regarding pad materials, how big of a concern is that? If I plan to swap pads a few times a year for track days, are there certain materials to avoid?
I'm all for sticking to similar pad materials if it's recommended. However, the Project Mu Club Racers are expensive! I'd definitely want to look at other options. Thanks.

-Mike

I8ABMR

Are the Carbotechs noisy on the streets ??

Compthis

iTrader: (1)

XP12's are very very noisy. Could be very embarrassing but I don't care. I love the stopping power, you want to stop, you stop.

I once came to slow stop at a traffic light and the brakes squealed really loud next to a guy with his windows down. He looked over and said "man you need a brake job" , I said to him "the rotors and pads are brand new", and they were.

If you care more about what people think when your slowing to a stop then don't rock these pads. If performance gains trumps what people think then get them.

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

I just swap the pads after a track day. I left the xp12s in for a couple weeks in July when i did 3 tracks days that month and they were tolerable, with the windows up. I do feel like the front pads wore faster on the street than at the track, but it could have just been after the two fastest track days that they were nearly spent. Maybe a brake pad guru can explain operating temperature and if using a track pad on the street decreases the life faster. On track days you only brake hard for short intervals, but on the street you're holding that pedal for longer intervals and the compound is designed to heat up fast to create the friction to stop, not be scrubbed along the rotor. All I know is I had significantly more brake dust with the XP during daily use than any track day with them.

And all that being said, I love the XP12 XP10 (with Motul 660 RBF) combo. Best stopping power with 0 fade even on the high speed tracks of Road Atlanta and Atlanta Motor Speedway.

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

Piston1047 gave me a good response for this scenario.
"I like to live dangerously"

Or, these stickers that I picked up
http://www.trackdecals.com/products/...-racecar-decal

Piston1047

Haha , I like those stickers.

Regarding pads, recently my favorite pads have been the Hawk DTC-60, it's a great pad for someone who wants good linear bite, great rotor wear and longer pad life. It is also surprisingly quite on the street in between swaps. BUT as Matt from speedfreaks pointed out, they do not make the 60's for the rear so your kind of left with a balancing decision to make. In other posts I have often made the argument that the pads optimal working range is what's important and that the difference between a DTC60 in the front and a DTC30 in the rear might not be bad since the heat differential front to rear is significant enough that both pads , although different, may be within their optimal heat range. Rafi, from RRracing has also said that a HP+ front and DTC30 rear could be optimal for a HPDE and would also give a little rotation, IF to get rotation in turns using braking is your cup of tea (which I partake in, since I like to live dangerously ). If you don't really want to mess around with all this, I say go with the carbotechs that everyone seems to have success with. All in all it comes down to where you think your driving level is and how "deep" into the braking zone you are willing to go. I have ridden with another guy on this forum at a recent track day (Torxuven) and he was having no problems with his stoptech pads on a mid-speed track like AMP , he even ran them on a high speed track (road Atlanta) and he said , although he got a little fade it was manageable.

SpeedFreaksUSA

iTrader: (1)

I've sent you a PM with a few things to consider but ultimately it is sounding like the Carbotechs will be what you're looking for. As far as the compound compatibility it can be an issue depending on the compounds used. Cabotechs are usually more sensitive to this which is why they say their pads must be used on new, uncontaminated rotors. However I have found that there is a way to mitigate the headache of swapping different pads on the same rotors- You can just swap in your track pads and street drive the car a few days before your track event. The XP12 will be pretty abrasive when cold and they will strip away the old transfer layer on the rotor casually driving around. Then just re-bed the XP12 and hit the track. After the track day keep the XP12s until they scrape away their transfer layer, swap to your street pads and re-bed those. Rinse and repeat


Yes and no. They are silent when properly bedded but as I described above they are very abrasive when cold and will scrape off their transfer layer if not heated up often. Once the transfer layer is gone they can get loud.


I have gotten the same reaction before as well. I always giggle to myself about it

It is the same explanation as above. Brake pads operate in two mechanisms- abrasive and adherent. When they are cold they are abrasive and just scrape against the rotor. When hot they are adherent, gripping transfer layer. It's the same idea as drag racers doing a big burnout prior to a launch and then launching on top of that burnout. It provides higher fiction levels, more stable friction and less wear since they are not just grinding away against the rotor.

I undertand exactly where you're coming from with optimal temperature concern and I agree with you that it is important. My argument is that some pad compounds have a very stable friction level across a wide temperature range which makes the optimal temp range very wide. Take a Carbotech XP12 for example- that compound is very consistent throughout a wide temp range. You could run XP12 in both the front and rear calipers and although the rear pads may be operating at a lower temperature than the fronts, they would still be providing nearly identical friction levels and characteristics which is essential for the brake balance. Just my .02

If I'm being honest I am still completely baffled how a Hawk HP+ can be recommended as a front compound on an IS-F for track use but apparently it has been used successfully by at least one person. It just has decently strong friction levels but the max operating temp is only ~900*F which is very low for the track. My biggest concern with that specific compound is that (speaking from personal experience) once they get too hot they don't give much warning before they REALLY fade which for some can be a recipe for their car to make friends with another solid object. Again brakes can be very subjective and different people prioritize different things out of a brake system. I agree with you that for anyone running less than full blown track pads on track, what they can get away with is going to come down to where they put their driving ability and how much performance they are willing to potentially sacrifice. Since I don't know many peoples driving abilities, I don't like to guess on whats the minimum they can get away with. Instead I will always recommend putting them onto something I know will work well regardless of how experienced they are. I'd rather have them use something they will grow into rather than something they will eventually grow out of or are already exceeding the boundaries of. I have list of reasons why going with a true track pad is much more beneficial but I'll save that rant for another time

-Matt M.

RRRacing

iTrader: (1)

I guess my use of Hawk HP-Plus on the front of our ISF while wipping off 30 minutes at NJMP on a 93deg day with zero fade does not compare to the experience that someone else had on a car that is not an ISF:-) NJMP is not that hard on brakes, and the notion that someone doing an HPDE need dedicated track pads for such an event is ludicrous.

In any case, we have been experimenting with Winmax pads (imported from Japan) on the ISF and our impressions are really good. Pricing is great too.

For anyone attending our NJMP Event on September 12th, please PM me and I will extend to you some really great pricing in return for feedback and on-the-track impressions on the 12th!


We appreciate everyone's support, and we are working really hard at developing new products and supporting the ISF community!

thanks,

Rafi