That's my line of thinking. My issue is the "racing school" history. Is it worth the fight? I dont know, but I do know I wouldn't have bought it had that been disclosed. Can I sell it and not get hurt because of the history? Depends on the buyer I guess but I suspect most would pass. Especially considering the manufacturer warranty was voided and the cpo warranty is non transferable.

 

They're at it again. This group of lying bastards continue to change their story. Buyer beware!! If you're looking at the low mileage 2014 they have ask the right questions. Ad says sunroof but I can't see it in any pictures. Don't see the wheel locks either. Perhaps they are there and I just can't see them due to picture quality.

 

So you can see the evidence of the second brake pedal on the passenger side of the car?

Anyways, you'd have to prove they knew about it before selling it to you which means you'd have to know about the previous transactions and all their details.

You have some laws protecting you if they fraudulently provided you with reports/inspections that are not true. For example you take your car in to get it aligned. The tire place can't align your car because it's too far out-of-whack. You look at your 100 million point inspection and it clearly says they check for damaged frames, alignments, steering, etc. (all of which would point out the obvious problem of the structure being warped). Now you have a case for deceptive advertising.

You're certainly not going to be able to make them take it back a year later without having serious leverage. The kind of leverage that makes them settle out of court. Otherwise they'll simply see how long and how much money you're willing to part with. If it's obvious they'll lose they will not take the risk of having to pay you 3 times damages (or whatever your state allows) and only if there was gross negligence would puninitive damages even be considered. You're not going to be walking away a millionaire. At best oh walk away having lost nothing but the maintenance items you put into the vehicle.

 

Did you get a legal advisor involved? Any new info?

You can always blast them on Yelp and AL.

 

This just keeps getting richer. After numerous back and forths with different sales managers (yes they were passing me around), I filed a complaint with a local agency. Well now they do recall the Skip Barber connection. However the way they laid it out (I'm sure they're being honest this time) points to more sleaze. They claim that it was ordered through them by Toyota corporate and "loaned" to upper management at SB and that it was not used on the track. Gee you think they will claim they had no Idea the cars were tracked? They claim SB upper management picked it up and they did not deliver it, even though the service bill says it was delivered. They claim "they" did not remove the tires. I see where this is going. I am not even close to done with these clowns.

The car now has 10k miles, 7300 fairly tame ones for which I account. I took it to a seasoned mechanic and we put it on a lift. Funny how quickly a trained eye can find things. Both front wheel wells have tire rub marks on the plastic where the tires would rub if the car was being braked hard into a turn. Theres some scraping underneath on the passenger side door indicative of possibly sliding off of pavement into grass or dirt. At least one rotor is cracked. The front and rear rotors were micd and almost toast. No I don't ride the brake. There are signs on all rims they were held with clamps to facilitate r & r of the tires. There's more I'm sure we will discover when we get after it again.

This ISF/PDS thing stinks to high heaven. Lot of coincidental bull **** popping up. Not many left but look around for any low mileage ISF's being offered at a dealership. Check the Carfax and note whoa Toyota corporate lease. Then take a WAG what is fairly close to that dealership. I also ask myself where are these SB cars going? Do they drive them to the junk yard? Why do all the SB ISF's I see in pictures not have a sunroof? These people are dirty. I've made very reasonable demands and they are either going to take care of them or they will be dealing with me for quite a while. I know there's probably not a whole lot I can do. All these consumer protections laws and groups are weak helping the little guy. We'll see though.

 

Thanks, everything you say makes sense and is along my line of thinking. Except the brake pedal on passenger side. They don't do that to these cars. The more I dig, the more this whole ISF?PDS thing reeks of scandalous. (see my other recent response) It's iffy getting money for damages as I will have to get an appraiser or other to document that a used PDS car has significantly less value than regular used. It certainly appears that way in some forums. I've seen estimates as much as 30% below wholesale. The warranty they give you is mostly crap. They are not going to cover anything that is worn out. I have quite a bit of dirt on these guys and I feel with proper leg work and documentation from professionals I stand a really good chance in small claims court. I also plan to turn everything I have over to the AG and DMV. These dudes are dirty. In my mind on practical days I realize I'll probably get nothing and nothing will happen to them. Deep pockets rule the day and step on **** ants like nothing. Just the same, I worked hard for mine and I take great offense to being ripped off and lied to.

 

So..... a 2014 ISF has popped up at the Monterey Dealership ($52,987 VIN#: JTHBP5C28E5011500, 6,670 MILES).

I of course was in shock, since it would have been great to purchase one...but... than, i read this whole thread and bubble is burst.......i contacted the dealership and asked some basic questions.. The answers received:
1. Has clean Carfax report. ( i was a bit shocked by the report itself... i know its not accurate. my previous car, had 2 accidents, and even dough i reported them to the DMV, it never showed up on the CARFAX)

2. It was used by the president of Pebble Beach under their corporate lease partnership with Lexus. (this sounds almost identical to the issues in this whole thread ).

3. Dealer refused to budge on price (i offered 44K as the beginning bargaining price.. obviously, i would have gone up a bit but than......), claiming KBB value... blah blah blah... so i low balled at 35,000 so i can end the conversation and not have to deal with the back and forth wasting both of our time.

Overall, polite e-mails from their sales manager, but still, i work in Acquisition field, and his type of negotiation style and the lack of detailed information, raised too many red alerts for me to continue the conversation. It felt as if i'm being lied to, (if that makes any sense) and usually if you get that "gut" feeling, its time to walk away.

Also, yup , the YELP reviews are horrible, and the fact that there are no replies back from the dealer on those reviews, ...... you all get the gist of it.

 

Oh yes Hillary is not the only world class liar on the planet. Of course I have no idea if that car saw Laguna Seca but considering what I've been through with them a thorough shake down is in order. Did you ask if you could see the service records? That's how I found out the car was delivered to Skip Barber. Carfax is pretty much
worthless if someone is playing dirty. Are the wheel locks missing? I had my tires analyzed using specific measurements and formulas it was determined that the tires had 2500-3000 miles less than the car. Coincidence Skip Barber uses a different tire than stock? Shoot Pebble Beach is only about 15 miles away from Mazda Laguna Seca. Wouldn't be too surprised if the car has seen that track a time or two. I still haven't decided if I want to push this to the limit. I really like the car but it's got that Scarlett Letter on it. I had a nice conversation with a BMW GM. He told me he always has buyers sign a disclosure acknowledging the a cars track history. He said they let buyers try certain models on the track all the time. Even with the disclosure he told me he's had to buy one back. I do believe I am on solid footing should I choose to proceed further. My interactions with the dealership have been laughable and almost pathetic. They tell so many lies they can't even keep em straight. Anyways if you go back I'd love to hear about it. PM me or whatever if you have any questions or info. Thanks

 

Since i closed the negotiations, i can not go back and have solid footing and the dealer was strict on not budging on the cost.

I did not ask for service records since i didn't want to truly pursuit the vehicle and the pictures are not high pixel enough for me to notice.

I live 3 hours away from the dealer, so i can not just make a leisure drive.

The other ISF that surfaced (4K miles, in Lincoln NE) has apparently been vouched for. I called to see if i can snag that up and someone has put a deposit down.

 

Does anyone have the vin#'s of these cars. It would be really useful to everyone. There have been a few cars 2013 that have Bay area history for sale over the last 6 months.