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Never forget, the OEM goal is to survive warranty with as few claims as possible. Yours has done precisely that. IME, Toyota exhausts fail routinely once warranty has been exceeded. Years ago I went to the junkyard to find a 4A-GE exhaust manifold for the GF's MR2, as the one on her car was cracked between cyl 3 & 4. I saw 11 exhaust manifolds. 10 of them were cracked in the exact same spot! So a failing exhaust manifold on a Toyota product seems about par for the course. I did some judicious die grinding on the good manifold to help prevent stress risers and cracking down the road, but it appeared the real issue was related to their EGR implementation. The crack was right near where the EGR recirculation tube was bolted on the manifold.
We don't have that, but we definitely have engine mounts that go bad in the vast majority of IS Fs on the road. Anything allowing the engine to move more than it should is never good.
Never forget, the OEM goal is to survive warranty with as few claims as possible. Yours has done precisely that.
Lexus corporate agrees. My case manager told me today that after reviewing the dealer diagnosis and considering the warranty status of the vehicle, the cracks in both exhaust manifolds are considered "normal wear and tear". No goodwill compensation will be provided for repair/replacement.
The one thing I would skip for sure - the exhaust gaskets are multi-sheet metal and designed to be reused. Some guys like to repaint them, but I've reused them many times without ever having a problem. I first discovered them being used for motorcycle head gaskets. They were all painted silver, so they'd get cleaned up and hit with a light coat of silver paint and used again. Never had one fail for me or a customer.
The one thing I would skip for sure - the exhaust gaskets are multi-sheet metal and designed to be reused. Some guys like to repaint them, but I've reused them many times without ever having a problem. I first discovered them being used for motorcycle head gaskets. They were all painted silver, so they'd get cleaned up and hit with a light coat of silver paint and used again. Never had one fail for me or a customer.
Thanks.
Any thoughts on OEM motor mounts vs Figs option? Polyurethane is out for me based on past experience.
Thanks.
Any thoughts on OEM motor mounts vs Figs option? Polyurethane is out for me based on past experience.
For the gaskets they are pretty much inexpensive... I would change if I knew I had no plans to do this work for another 10 years.. Not saying they will fail, but not worth the experiment to find out.
Now interestingly enough the OEM engine mounts were updated to the new part numbers found on the RC F / GS F..
When my manifold work was covered under warranty, they added in a RH passenger side motor mount. Mine was broken.
I PAID out of pocket to change the LH drivers side mount at the same time
Dealing with the extended warranty at times was difficult but worth it in the end.. They fought hard to not want to cover the RH manifold unless proof of the crack, which means I authorized removal and would have to cover labor if it wasn't... Obviously it was cracked..
The factory OEM warranty outside of its expiration covered none of this... Did not attempt a good will inquiry, since my paid for extended warranty was still applicable..
Now interestingly enough the OEM engine mounts were updated to the new part numbers found on the RC F / GS F..
Interesting indeed! Part number 12361-38180 was replaced by 12361-38230...so it would seem there is an least a possibility that the design was updated.
For the gaskets they are pretty much inexpensive... I would change if I knew I had no plans to do this work for another 10 years.. Not saying they will fail, but not worth the experiment to find out.
Now interestingly enough the OEM engine mounts were updated to the new part numbers found on the RC F / GS F..
When my manifold work was covered under warranty, they added in a RH passenger side motor mount. Mine was broken.
I PAID out of pocket to change the LH drivers side mount at the same time
Dealing with the extended warranty at times was difficult but worth it in the end.. They fought hard to not want to cover the RH manifold unless proof of the crack, which means I authorized removal and would have to cover labor if it wasn't... Obviously it was cracked..
The factory OEM warranty outside of its expiration covered none of this... Did not attempt a good will inquiry, since my paid for extended warranty was still applicable..
Joe Z
I understand your predicament now. Quite a decision to authorize removal = -$3k if no cracks/failures were found. Glad your extended warranty worked out despite the adventure...
One would like to think the same methods are used to diagnose warranty and non-warranty customers. I have to assume my car was diagnosed non-invasively with a borescope or similar device.
Last edited by ChpEng; 08-02-20 at 04:18 PM.
Reason: punctuation
You can't buy the earlier part number mounts anymore. I bought a set for installation when I put the headers on (have to buy them first...) and given the redesign, I'm more comfortable these will last a little longer. Keep in mind, no rubber mount will last forever. I had to replace all the mounts on the wife's previous Scion tC because they were so bad they were impacting wheel alignment (FWD platform) and literally shaking the car. Felt brand new after the new mounts went it. My IS F feels a bump if I roll into the gas hard because the left mount is so bad.
The car is still in the shop right now getting FBO and tune. Just having issues with the tune files and waiting for RR Racing to respond and send some new ones over. I knew my headers were cracked before I took it to the dealer for other maintenance. Lexus of Austin swore up and down that they couldn't hear the cold start rattle nor could they see the crack with a borescope.
You can't buy the earlier part number mounts anymore. I bought a set for installation when I put the headers on (have to buy them first...) and given the redesign, I'm more comfortable these will last a little longer. Keep in mind, no rubber mount will last forever. I had to replace all the mounts on the wife's previous Scion tC because they were so bad they were impacting wheel alignment (FWD platform) and literally shaking the car. Felt brand new after the new mounts went it. My IS F feels a bump if I roll into the gas hard because the left mount is so bad.
Im curious why you didn’t upgrade to figs or RRs design? You’ve noted in other threads that upgraded mounts (trans) can potentially affect longevity of the drivetrain. Same concern here?
I would look at non oem mounts simply because I don’t ever want to do this twice.
So looking at it, you can see the broken pieces were originally welded and the one on the other end floats. They would have been way ahead if they'd made the mounts both floating from the factory, but that would complicate assembly and fabrication. They probably saved $1 a unit ($2 per car) by welding one end of the mount.
Im curious why you didn’t upgrade to figs or RRs design? You’ve noted in other threads that upgraded mounts (trans) can potentially affect longevity of the drivetrain. Same concern here?
I would look at non oem mounts simply because I don’t ever want to do this twice.
I don't see them as upgrades for my purposes. It's still a daily driver and no matter how you slice it you have to accept significant NVH increases with engine/transmission mounts. I got the Kein transmission mount with the hope it isn't like other transmission mounts and connecting gear noise directly to the chassis. A good friend with a Supra (many years ago) who didn't mind noise bought a stiffer gearbox mount for his car and took it out shortly after the install. He couldn't stand the noise it made. I will do the same if the Kein mount makes an annoying amount of noise in the cabin. I am dead certain I would not like any of the aftermarket engine mounts. Already sure about it.
I don't see them as upgrades for my purposes. It's still a daily driver and no matter how you slice it you have to accept significant NVH increases with engine/transmission mounts. I got the Kein transmission mount with the hope it isn't like other transmission mounts and connecting gear noise directly to the chassis. A good friend with a Supra (many years ago) who didn't mind noise bought a stiffer gearbox mount for his car and took it out shortly after the install. He couldn't stand the noise it made. I will do the same if the Kein mount makes an annoying amount of noise in the cabin. I am dead certain I would not like any of the aftermarket engine mounts. Already sure about it.
For me, I can tell you that I feel a difference with the RR engine mounts vs my worn out OEM. Yes, you absolutely feel/hear an increase in NVH but surprisingly it's very subtle and I also daily my IS-F. When the car idles or my foot is on the brake at a light, you'll feel a small increase in vibration but to me it's tiny. I was afraid of the harshness and sounds it would bring upon my daily F but it's actually not bad at all. I had them installed while I was overseas at my buddies shop and after coming back and driving it, I barely notice the NVH and it drives a whole lot better than what it did before. Now, for the transmission mount, I went ahead and ordered a new OEM one because I know for a fact that the increased vibrations will need to travel somewhere and probably be a little annoying for a DD.
I still wanted to retain a little luxury, but increased sporty fill, without a huge amount of compromise. Car is in the shop again for FBO install so I'll have to see how all the new mounts, headers and suspension work will feel in the car.
No doubt any new mount will be better than the originals at this point. Pretty much like getting new tires and raving about how much better they are (which totally stands to reason compared to worn out tires). I'll be fine with the new redesigned OEM mounts for now. If I ever get a wild hair, I'll get a carbon driveshaft and more rigid mounts, but at this point, that's a way off. I have more important things to save for with a McLaren badge on the hood.
07-27-20, 02:07 AM
