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After my first track day (standard 2012 car) it became obvious that I need more negative FRONT camber, as tires were basically destroyed... (outside edge).
- there is no front camber adjustment on OEM, right?
I'm not questioning your track day/racing experience but are you sure you checked all variables before going this direction? While excessive camber gain COULD be a factor in this case, I think there are some cheap less drastic alternatives to take a look at before altering suspension geometry. So let me ask:
1) Did you confirm your tire pressures and the temp across the contact patch?
2) What is your current camber? (maybe your aliment was not set correctly)
3) Are you possible overworking the car, if you are just early/late apexing or going into turns too fast this would destroy tires. If you are on stock tire width this is likely due to car weight and the 225 width.
Like I said, not trying to question the depth of your experience but I wouldn't go changing camber to more extreme angles before addressing the above issues, remember , increased negative camber can hurt the braking threshold.
I'm not questioning your track day/racing experience but are you sure you checked all variables before going this direction? While excessive camber gain COULD be a factor in this case, I think there are some cheap less drastic alternatives to take a look at before altering suspension geometry. So let me ask:
1) Did you confirm your tire pressures and the temp across the contact patch?
2) What is your current camber? (maybe your aliment was not set correctly)
3) Are you possible overworking the car, if you are just early/late apexing or going into turns too fast this would destroy tires. If you are on stock tire width this is likely due to car weight and the 225 width.
My track experience is not that great, so any ideas are welcome!
1. tire pressure was up to 3.2 bar all tires
2. I didn't check alignment, but car feels pretty ok - I will check it when doing next service. I'm all stock.
3.I was working car hard, but speeds in the corner were nothing special - indeed OEM front is very small + weight makes tire work very hard
Still, outside was pretty much destroyed, where usage from 2/3 of tire width till inside edge was pretty normal.
Thus a bit of negative camber should be helpful - of course not a lot.
If I put wheels with slightly smaller radius, how would it impact camber angle on stock suspension?
My track experience is not that great, so any ideas are welcome!
1. tire pressure was up to 3.2 bar all tires
2. I didn't check alignment, but car feels pretty ok - I will check it when doing next service. I'm all stock.
3.I was working car hard, but speeds in the corner were nothing special - indeed OEM front is very small + weight makes tire work very hard
Still, outside was pretty much destroyed, where usage from 2/3 of tire width till inside edge was pretty normal.
Thus a bit of negative camber should be helpful - of course not a lot.
If I put wheels with slightly smaller radius, how would it impact camber angle on stock suspension?
1. Converting to PSI that's about 46, which is high for warm tires. If that was your cold temp , definitely lower the pressures to between 33-36 psi pending track temps. Honestly your tire PSI is a function of a lot of variables and knowing the temp delta from outside to inside is critical to understanding the full picture but form what you are telling me you pressure might be to high and your getting excessive understeer and overworking the tires and at that point they just get worse. I would honestly try getting a alignment done to confirm you are within spec , then mess with pressures with stock pressure as a basline then look at your tires after doing a session. Their is a ideal "contact patch zone" on every performance tire that shows the optimal boundary of the tread for performance driving. (see little triangle on the outside tread in the picture). You shouldn't have any wear past this point. I really think your are having another issue and you don't need adjustable upper arms at this point, from what I know most of the guys here who track their F's (myself included) have been working within the factory camber range form the front without destroying tires. Maybe I8BMR or ZaxF can chime in. Or you can bring this up in the track guys post.
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely check the alignment when doing next service and next time try slightly lower pressure. But still don't think small misalignment would cause this - I will try to post the photo soon when I'm back home.
When using slightly smaller diameter wheels, how would it impact camber when compared to let's say OEM camber?
Thanks for all the suggestions. I will definitely check the alignment when doing next service and next time try slightly lower pressure. But still don't think small misalignment would cause this - I will try to post the photo soon when I'm back home.
When using slightly smaller diameter wheels, how would it impact camber when compared to let's say OEM camber?
well the car could easy have positive camber either from a bad camber adjustment or past accident or incident with a curb. You OEM camber adjustment has enough range to end up in the positive zone, if that is the case you would def run into some serious camber gain issues on track. When they do alignment they are looking at and adjusting camber,toe,maybe caster.
What do you mean by smaller diameter wheels? Are you talking about running a smaller rim with the same aspect ratio? Like overall rim+ tire diameter? As long as the change is a small percentage (
I will definitely take it to the garage - very curious to see what the current figures are. If indeed camber is positive, that would explain. But I didn't have any accident or anything. Let's see.
What is the front camber adjustment range OEM? I thought it can't be adjusted at all...
It can't be adjusted from the factory. You will have to buy aftermarket parts to make that happen.
You should not need this at stock ride height. Just get your pressures correct and get your toe correct and you should be fine. If your last alignment was intended to increase tire service life, it is very possible you have too much toe in for track driving.
1. Converting to PSI that's about 46, which is high for warm tires. If that was your cold temp , definitely lower the pressures to between 33-36 psi pending track temps. Honestly your tire PSI is a function of a lot of variables and knowing the temp delta from outside to inside is critical to understanding the full picture but form what you are telling me you pressure might be to high and your getting excessive understeer and overworking the tires and at that point they just get worse. I would honestly try getting a alignment done to confirm you are within spec , then mess with pressures with stock pressure as a basline then look at your tires after doing a session. Their is a ideal "contact patch zone" on every performance tire that shows the optimal boundary of the tread for performance driving. (see little triangle on the outside tread in the picture). You shouldn't have any wear past this point. I really think your are having another issue and you don't need adjustable upper arms at this point, from what I know most of the guys here who track their F's (myself included) have been working within the factory camber range form the front without destroying tires. Maybe I8BMR or ZaxF can chime in. Or you can bring this up in the track guys post.
My pressures were right on after yesterday's track sessions
04-15-16, 08:22 AM
IS-F FRONT camber options
