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There is more to life than drag racing and 1/4 mile ET's. Ever heard of road racing? We have so many customers who have an absolute blast with their ISF's at the track. The IS-F is an amazing machine in that you can beat the living **** out of it at the track every weekend, and daily drive it to work or with your family-- all it requires is basic maintenance. With some basic suspension mods it is an extremely capable track car. If you have some decent driving skills, you will have no problem keeping up with or defeating all the top HPDE cars, Porsches, Vetttes, BMW's, etc.
Here it is... a bunch of F cars in their natural habitat... a track with turns (our May track day at Pocono Raceway):
-Rafi
Amen to that.
The F stands for Fuji which last time I looked wasn't a drag strip even given it has a km plus long straight.
It disappoints me when folks talk about performance and allocate that discussion to a QTR mile time for me coming from the Supra community also I just never got it.
If you want to see what the car can really do get as far away from the drag strip as possible.
It's all good. I don't own the IS F. I only knew what Lexus said about the RC F and then I read in the RC F forum something about the IS F not having forged internals. I had no reason to doubt the info at the time so I took it as being correct. Now I know that it was not correct. Thanks for the PDF.
Originally Posted by autoz4me
Amen to that.
The F stands for Fuji which last time I looked wasn't a drag strip even given it has a km plus long straight.
It disappoints me when folks talk about performance and allocate that discussion to a QTR mile time for me coming from the Supra community also I just never got it.
If you want to see what the car can really do get as far away from the drag strip as possible.
I also did not buy the car for 1/4 mile runs. I'm sure nobody here bought a F to have it sit on a dyno either. They are both tools in my mind. When I make a power enhancement to my ride I want to see the improvement made. You can't compare to random drivers you race on the street because drivers win races, not cars. I have beat many cars that should have beat me. That doesn't mean that my car is faster than the car I beat. At the strip I race myself, through timeslips.
If I had a road course track that I ran a lot then I could probably use that track as a tool as well. However, I would be limited to using only the tracks I am familiar with since different tracks are going to have different lap times.
With a drag strip you can go to any drag strip anywhere and use density altitude calculations to correct the times which gives a lot of flexibility.
Now I know that you are referring to the agility of the car and that you aren't going to test that at the drag strip. I agree with you. I bought my F for road racing, not drag racing. But I will be drag racing from time to time as it's my own personal dyno (plus, it's just fun). I'm only speaking for myself. Some others may have other plans. I'm only showing how the drag strip can have a place for every type of car, not only dragsters. Maybe the strip isn't for you? I can respect that. To each his own.
The performance of the F line is not judged in 1,320 feet and keeping the steering wheel straight. Try 16,000 plus feet and 11 plus turns. This is what PERFORMANCE is.
The performance of the F line is not judged in 1,320 feet and keeping the steering wheel straight. Try 16,000 plus feet and 11 plus turns. This is what PERFORMANCE is.
I'll be one of those with a supercharger soon enough, albeit on a RC F. I don't care about the cost. If I only wanted power/performance I could have bought a Hellcat or a Z06. They are both capable of running high 10's in stock form with optimum track conditions. I was actually looking at a Z06, as well as 2 other brands when I jumped into my RC F (Porsche and Jaguar). I have always needed to be different. My buddies drove Mustangs, I had to have the Camaro. The F, both IS and RC, are rare. I didn't come from money. I used to do all of my own wrenching. I still do when I have the time. But when it's cheaper to pay someone else rather than to miss time at work, you get the point.
I would like to see 1000 whp eventually. I believe it is possible on the new forged internals used on the block for the RC F. So that's one of my long term missions. As for the cost? I don't know. But the SS exhaust I'm installing next week goes for $6k from the headers back, more for titanium (You asked). I could have went worth a Borla for ~$1.5k though. The IS F is probably less since it's been out longer and there's more of them on the road.
Anyway, we should all on the same team. There's too few of us.
There is more to life than drag racing and 1/4 mile ET's. Ever heard of road racing? We have so many customers who have an absolute blast with their ISF's at the track. The IS-F is an amazing machine in that you can beat the living **** out of it at the track every weekend, and daily drive it to work or with your family-- all it requires is basic maintenance. With some basic suspension mods it is an extremely capable track car. If you have some decent driving skills, you will have no problem keeping up with or defeating all the top HPDE cars, Porsches, Vetttes, BMW's, etc.
Here it is... a bunch of F cars in their natural habitat... a track with turns (our May track day at Pocono Raceway):
-Rafi
Why yes, I have heard of road racing ! As a matter a fact look at my Youtube page and you will see me road racing a Ferrari, Indy Lite, and a Formula Miata. lol I am also headed to Sebring with my F early next year. As far as more to life than drag racing, how many times a day does road racing present itself on the street and how many times does drag racing ?
I too applaud his info, time, effort, etc etc etc. More than what most of us are doing and even capable of doing due to lack of free time, equipment, or whatever the case may be. For that, I'll say TANK YOU for your work. Keep it up, whether some people appreciate it or not, there are some of use who do appreciate it!
Honestly, Rafi started out almost the same way.... testing things on this car where no one else would go in depth testing....and look how far RR Racing has come on our platform!!
We all know that the F cars are expensive to mod...and most of us knew that coming in... I'm sure we could all mod and get the same power from Hondas, Subarus, and Mitsubish's, but we chose the F!
But support this guy for his efforts and info, never know what positive direction it could take us!
V.
Thanks dude, much appreciated ! I think I got the push back I did because it went against all of the seat of the pants tests, rumors, and people with parts to sell and what had been taken as the gospel around here. Of course full length exhaust, tunes, and superchargers will result in more gains but not the gains that I am willing to spend on a car I around clients around in. Nor do I think thousands of dollars for full exhaust for 30 or so rwhp is worth the money. I guess I am use to cars that full length exhaust costs less than $1k.
This "pushback" isn't a result of rumors. The pushback is due to you being the only person these past 8 years claiming the k&n intake makes power. That's all...of course we question your testing etiquette, that which I think is severely flawed and gave you the results you have provided us with.
K&n/injen/srt differ from stock in two ways: they remove the dual stage intake and they are open element filters. Unfortunately, the bottleneck of the system isn't the filter, and removing dual stage intake might be fine and dandy if the open filter didn't suck in all of that hot air.
It's awesome you provided us with insight and your time. However even if I put in years of work to transform a canvas into a crappy piece, nobody is going to care about the time I put in.
This "pushback" isn't a result of rumors. The pushback is due to you being the only person these past 8 years claiming the k&n intake makes power. That's all...of course we question your testing etiquette, that which I think is severely flawed and gave you the results you have provided us with.
K&n/injen/srt differ from stock in two ways: they remove the dual stage intake and they are open element filters. Unfortunately, the bottleneck of the system isn't the filter, and removing dual stage intake might be fine and dandy if the open filter didn't suck in all of that hot air.
It's awesome you provided us with insight and your time. However even if I put in years of work to transform a canvas into a crappy piece, nobody is going to care about the time I put in.
Testing etiquette ? I have not found any other test on here of this kit or any others for that matter that went through the steps I did. Would love to hear how they are flawed, other than just saying it like others but with nothing to back it up like I did to to contrary ? My dyno results were higher and my car went almost three tenths quicker in the 1/4 mile, those are not results ? I have nothing to gain from my test other than being very detailed in how I did my review as opposed to other ones I have read. I am also not the only one that had these results, see here from five years ago: www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticles/ID/1827/Project-Lexus-IS-F-Part-1-We-Test-the-KN-Typhoon-High-Flow-Air-Intake.aspx
Did you even look back on page two where I made a mod to what I also found flawed in this kit ? Maybe I need to make a new thread about this. I took the snorkel from the factory box off and attached it back to the built in air intake on the car. Is this the difference in my performance results ? Who knows but it is highly possible given so many that says this is the flaw in this kit and I found a way around it. So there is canvas that might have been transformed into something else.
Hey ISFScott - we were discussing density altitude in the other thread before the holidays. Were you able to get the time slips and weather conditions matched up? I reran the calculations based on the time frames you gave me and there is still a significant difference in air density between these two runs.
Baseline 10/20/16 @ 10PM is around 1550'. Corrected ET = 12.60 @ 113
K&N runs 11/21/16 were around 500'
Corrected ET = 12.53 @ 113.3
This the main test flaw I see. Until I see proof otherwise the performance gain is, IMHO, virtually all explained by weather conditions
In this thread the OP is a pioneer and has a few firsts.
- He has the only F that makes more power with a k&n intake.
- He has the only F that's faster in Auto as opposed to manual
- He has the only F that gets a better launch by power launching/brake tourquing as opposed to launching from idle.
Also, as shown by the sticky drag racing thread, we don't have experience with our cars at the drag nor road racing for that matter so this might be part of the problem.
In my opinion it's the OPs lack of research and attitude towards criticism that's making people answer him the way they are. People tried to give him pointers on how to conduct the tests for more accuracy but he got defensive and stated his vast experience dynoing others cars. He didn't know that the isf has not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 very sensitive knock sensors, that the isf has been tunable since more than a year ago, that the F is extremely sensitive to IATs and doesn't belive that the computer adjusts over its cycle. Remember that just because the OP couldn't find the threads , it doesn't mean that they're not there. I'm sorry but one has to do some research before challenging people that have been testing this car for years.
Hey ISFScott - we were discussing density altitude in the other thread before the holidays. Were you able to get the time slips and weather conditions matched up? I reran the calculations based on the time frames you gave me and there is still a significant difference in air density between these two runs.
Baseline 10/20/16 @ 10PM is around 1550'. Corrected ET = 12.60 @ 113
K&N runs 11/21/16 were around 500'
Corrected ET = 12.53 @ 113.3
This the main test flaw I see. Until I see proof otherwise the performance gain is, IMHO, virtually all explained by weather conditions
Using the dates and times above and previous videos/timeslips, I hand calculated DAs in the Bradenton area from NWS data and came to the same conclusion. Less than a 1% difference in ET and speed using the DA corrected values for those dates/times. Are these the correct dates and times OP?
Using the dates and times above and previous videos/timeslips, I hand calculated DAs in the Bradenton area from NWS data and came to the same conclusion. Less than a 1% difference in ET and speed using the DA corrected values for those dates/times. Are these the correct dates and times OP?
I will have to go find them at home but I did make a correction as I had written down the wrong DA numbers for the corresponding time slips when I got home when I usually write them on right after the run when I have taken the DA measurement via my friends handheld device. I made four passes at different times throughout the day and wrote a later number on my best run. I believe it was 1290 on my stock runs and 785 ( or so ) on my new runs but it equated to less than a tenth in the 1/4 mile either way. Keep in mind the dates and times from the Dragtimes website is taken from the local airport that is close but not out there on that part of 64. Bradenton has its own weather believe it or not, it is something my friend that owns the track and I have discussed before. They think it is link that because of the large lake across the street and the lay of the land. So what a online site says the DA is there is close most of the time but not as accurate as this at the track:
DA has less on an effect on a pretty much stock car and my numbers from my stock runs to my new best with the kit on was about 500 ( DA feet ) apart. That equated to my previous stock time going from a 12.82 to a 12.79 and my new best going up from a 12.59 to a 12.62 using the weather from the stock runs. I still went .26 faster without any weather corrections so with a 500 foot swing in DA I am still .20-.22 faster than stock.
In this thread the OP is a pioneer and has a few firsts.
- He has the only F that makes more power with a k&n intake.
- He has the only F that's faster in Auto as opposed to manual
- He has the only F that gets a better launch by power launching/brake tourquing as opposed to launching from idle.
Also, as shown by the sticky drag racing thread, we don't have experience with our cars at the drag nor road racing for that matter so this might be part of the problem.
In my opinion it's the OPs lack of research and attitude towards criticism that's making people answer him the way they are. People tried to give him pointers on how to conduct the tests for more accuracy but he got defensive and stated his vast experience dynoing others cars. He didn't know that the isf has not 1, not 2, not 3 but 4 very sensitive knock sensors, that the isf has been tunable since more than a year ago, that the F is extremely sensitive to IATs and doesn't belive that the computer adjusts over its cycle. Remember that just because the OP couldn't find the threads , it doesn't mean that they're not there. I'm sorry but one has to do some research before challenging people that have been testing this car for years.
I did my homework and is why I took this test on because I did not believe a cold air kit on any car would de-tune itself over time, mine has yet to do that. I got a little snippy at times only in direct response to others basically calling me a liar or I work for K&N which neither is the case.
So your analysis is correct and maybe it is because I have 25 years of experience at the track but that would not explain the dyno numbers. And while I heard others say, well dynos can vary from day to day ( which they do ) they never seem to take that in to account for their own dyno tests, weird right ?
So yes, so far I have a better 60ft time than anyone else I have seen either stock or with just a cold air kit, 1.91 60ft on a car with mostly bald original factory rear tires is a testament to Pete who preps the track and maybe because I have run a lot there. Yes my car leaves harder foot braked. I tried idle, 1,000 rpm's, 1,500 rpm's, and 2,000 rpm's. Somewhere between 1,500-2,000 foot brake it hauls the mail nicely and does not spin on my **** tires. lol I do not think I can leave more than 2,000 rpm's when I put new tires on soon because I think the converter will build to much heat or the tires will start to spin.
I get better times in full auto mode but just barely. I think this is because I shift a little higher than the auto mode does and this is getting me beyond the peak power so I will play with that next time because to me the car feels faster in manual mode on the street. The two times I have gone to the track they have been unusually packed so I have not been able to make as many hits as I want, thankfully my friend the starter did let me hot lap a few passes last time via the pro line or I would have been there all day to make four passes. lol
What I want to try next is launch in manual mode, as soon as I shift to second, slide it back to manual mode and see how that goes. Has anyone else here tried this at the track ? Will the car adjust quick enough to make the correct 2-3 shift ? If this works I am pretty sure I can get a 1.8x 60 ft..
So if I have come off harsh at times maybe now you know why, just scroll through, I only bark back when someone is kind of being a D-bag for no reason. I called no one out here and have the same goal as the rest of you, go faster ! I think maybe I am getting a little hate because I got published on Super Street for this and I am relatively new here but not to racing or car tuning in general and I get that I guess.
11-24-16, 11:41 AM
We have so many customers who have an absolute blast with their ISF's at the track. The IS-F is an amazing machine in that you can beat the living **** out of it at the track every weekend, and daily drive it to work or with your family-- all it requires is basic maintenance. With some basic suspension mods it is an extremely capable track car. If you have some decent driving skills, you will have no problem keeping up with or defeating all the top HPDE cars, Porsches, Vetttes, BMW's, etc.
