Thoughts on how the IS-F will hold it's value over the next few years?
#16
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#17
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The S2000 has already been slowly starting to appreciate in value over the past couple of years and it's only going to keep rising over time. I've had my S2K for 10 years now and plan on holding on to it. It's a great fun car that you actually drive as opposed to the car driving you, like we have been starting to see more and more in modern cars with all the computer assistance. Nothing like having 3 pedals, a stick to shift through the gears with little computer assistance.
I love my S2K, pairs nicely with my ISF![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
I love my S2K, pairs nicely with my ISF
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
#18
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They seem to hold their value very well. Check out this 2012 with 1,800 miles for $55k WOW
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=ISF
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=ISF
#19
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They seem to hold their value very well. Check out this 2012 with 1,800 miles for $55k WOW
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=ISF
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=ISF
#20
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They seem to hold their value very well. Check out this 2012 with 1,800 miles for $55k WOW
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=ISF
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-s...modelCode1=ISF
V.
#21
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If I was going to buy this car I wouldn't pay much more than 1-2K over MY 2012 average retail value.
#22
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There are many factors in play here. The general state of the economy, interest rates, programs like 'cash for clunkers', gas prices, electric cars, and demand. With that being said, I think if the car get a reputation that it's bulletproof (which is getting close if not there already) and begin to get modified with turbos and superchargers (to gain cred from enthusiasts), clean examples will hold value or slowly depreciate for 10 or so years then maybe we'll start to see some appreciation.
I bought mine because I trust in Lexus' reliability, fits a baby seat/kids and it's got an awesome V8. I plan to drive the snot out of mine, 100k miles or more.
I bought mine because I trust in Lexus' reliability, fits a baby seat/kids and it's got an awesome V8. I plan to drive the snot out of mine, 100k miles or more.
#23
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If you are looking for a like new ISF it's a good find but I certainly wouldn't call it a steal. The only way this would be a steal is if you absolutely knew for sure that the car value is going to skyrocket in 15 years or sometime in the future. Otherwise you are paying almost new car price for a five year old car without getting any of the new car benefits ( except may 1 year remaining drivetrain warranty). If you drive another 10-15K miles after buying this car it wont be worth much more than any other low mileage MY 2012 ISF. Chances are those initial miles will cost you $15K or more in depreciation if you drive it in the first year. If you are willing to loose that much in one year you are better off with a brand new car. Of course if you are looking for an ISF and plan to keep the car for a long time this one would be a good candidate.
If I was going to buy this car I wouldn't pay much more than 1-2K over MY 2012 average retail value.
If I was going to buy this car I wouldn't pay much more than 1-2K over MY 2012 average retail value.
Last year there was 2012 ISF in NYC with less then 10k miles for $40k
Last edited by kolyan; 02-24-17 at 07:37 AM.
#24
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Yes it's a great car to have for sure. Unfortunately I had to sell mine since I only have parking for 1 car. As fun as it is, it still gets boring to daily drive same car for 5 years.....I had an 06 and in 10 years I only spent $100 bucks in repairs....No one believes me lol
![Smilie](https://www.clublexus.com/forums/images/smilies/smile.gif)
Damn only 100 bux in repairs is crazy low! I haven't really had to do much to mine other than routine maintenance, it's been good to me. But I did blow my rear diff once years ago, but luckily my car was still under warranty at the time, so nothing out of my pocket for that repair. I have an AP1, so I'm sure you know the rear diff was a weak spot on them, it was addressed and fixed on the AP2's.
#25
#26
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You guys need to inform yourselves by joining Bring-A-Trailer.com (or something similar). There are plenty of cars with automatic transmissions that are appreciating in price. I mean, an auto tranny has never held back certain desirable AMGs and you can't get a Ferrari with a manual transmission any more. Just because we think of cars with a manual transmission as more collectible, the rest of the world sees it differently. There was an article last week by a mainstream publication that lamented the dearth of cars with a manual transmission. I'll post a link if I can find it.
The last MY for the IS-F was 2014, three short years ago. It's far too early to predict what the car will be worth in 20-years, which is why I said it has the ingredients to rise in price over time. A good friend of mine purchased his MKIV Supra Turbo for $22k many years ago. His car, with over 100k miles was recently appraised at $65k. In fact, his car was featured in the "Condition Trumps Mileage" thread on Supraforums. As said earlier, cars that were considered buckets 30-40 years ago are now going for as much as ten times their original MSRP.
Ken.
The last MY for the IS-F was 2014, three short years ago. It's far too early to predict what the car will be worth in 20-years, which is why I said it has the ingredients to rise in price over time. A good friend of mine purchased his MKIV Supra Turbo for $22k many years ago. His car, with over 100k miles was recently appraised at $65k. In fact, his car was featured in the "Condition Trumps Mileage" thread on Supraforums. As said earlier, cars that were considered buckets 30-40 years ago are now going for as much as ten times their original MSRP.
Ken.
The biggest collector import I'm surprised someone hasn't mentioned yet....
Acura Integra Type R, 1997-2001
I've seen them sell on BAT for upwards of $35-40k for mint clean examples. That car was high $20's I believe new? They stopped making them in 2001, that wasn't all that long ago. ITRs are going consistently around original MSRP now, mid 20s for "ok" examples.... But a clean 1-2 owner, with records, original parts are selling well over the original MSRP of the car. Hell even rebuilt title, nicely restored versions are still going for $10-12k, and thats REBUILT TITLE.
The production numbers of ITRs from 1997-2001 was about 3900 total made.
I don't know Supra numbers but i don't think they were crazy limited production, they were definitely rare, for sure, but like an ITR or ISF? I think there was 8-9000 MKIV TT Supras in USDM? Correct me if wrong, please. S2000 numbers I don't consider low or rare at all, i don't know the number, but i know for a fact there is WAAAAY more S2000s made then IS-Fs... S2000s are getting rare now, but they definitely weren't hard to find, I worked for a Honda dealer for many years. I remember them sitting on the showroom FOR EVER! This wasnt that long ago. But even those are now collectible and values going up, and there was probably at least 30-40,000 s2000s made.
ISF numbers are around the 5,000 units for USDM ? I think thats correct, someone here knows this, or has an idea...
Do I think it'll be in supra territory? No, I don't think so, not $80-100k, but i definitely think there is a chance that they will rise a bit. They're already starting to level out, i've been watching this exact type of thing for a while with these cars. What happens is they get down in price to be affordable for everyone, including a lot of younger people (not all of course) that like to mod them, and beat the **** out of them, mile them way up and eventually those cars go away, or get stolen, stripped, destroyed, turned into track cars etc.
I definitely think say 10-15 years from now, a clean, 1-2 owner ISF, in a good color, all original, decent miles, well cared for example will still bring upwards of $40-50k. Especially a 2011-2014.
This exact thread is why i just bought my second one 6 months ago, i had a 2008 that i got rid of in 2009, and wished i hadn't. So i bought a 1 owner, locally owned and serviced, mint 2011 USB w/ Alpine interior that I plan on keeping. I'm in the car biz, and when i saw it i jumped on it quickly. I probably even paid more then many on the forum say they're "worth" and i have every resource available to me to buy a car at wholesale cost, even access to buy at every auction in the country, access to every software program out there that predicts car values, and market day supply, all of it, and I paid more then i "should have", not by much, but i definitely didn't "steal it".
There is a lot if threads and comments floating around on here about what is a good deal, and what isn't a good deal... I'll tell you, if you can find a clean un-molested decent mile ISF, jump on it. They're becoming very hard to find....I would definitely not worry about paying 2,3,4, even 5K more then what a "good deal" a clublexus says you should (usually a comment by a member that doesn't own an ISF, and never has, and they're still out of their budget)
And i definitely think they'll be worth more then they are now at some point, and it won't be long from now...
Just my 2 cents :-)
#27
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^^Spot-on about the Integra Type R. I first became aware of this when a championship white, one owner car, with 10,xxx miles sold for $42k on eBay. Since then, everything I've seen on BaT demonstrates that was not an outlier transaction.
Generally accepted Supra numbers depending on source: 12,000 total cars, with approximately 7700 being of the twin-turbo variety; 11,239 cars, with 6900 being of the twin-turbo variety.
The North America number for the IS-F is approximately 5,200, so it more than meets the rarity test if there is one.
I say this because actual/future collectibility is not always about pure logic. There are muscle cars that were made in the hundreds of thousand that, under certain circumstances, command huge prices. Currently on BaT, the 1976-1980 Porsche 930s are coming out of the woodwork and selling for $120-135k in some instances. While these cars established the vaunted Porsche turbo reputation, they are the least powerful, poorest handling, 4-speed versions of this legendary car. That said, it is those very qualities that have resonated with buyers to the point where long-time owners are putting their cars up for sale and seeing what the current market will bring.
"Smokey and the Bandit" Firebird Trans-Ams have seen a recent, fairly significant rise in pricing overall, and one signed by Burt Reynolds either sold, or was being offered, for $350k. There is absolutely no justification for prices like that, even on a one-time basis, but the collector car market is a funny thing, and trying to predict future "winners" is as difficult as ascertaining which styles will be popular with your wives/girlfriends 20-years from now.
Ken.
Generally accepted Supra numbers depending on source: 12,000 total cars, with approximately 7700 being of the twin-turbo variety; 11,239 cars, with 6900 being of the twin-turbo variety.
The North America number for the IS-F is approximately 5,200, so it more than meets the rarity test if there is one.
I say this because actual/future collectibility is not always about pure logic. There are muscle cars that were made in the hundreds of thousand that, under certain circumstances, command huge prices. Currently on BaT, the 1976-1980 Porsche 930s are coming out of the woodwork and selling for $120-135k in some instances. While these cars established the vaunted Porsche turbo reputation, they are the least powerful, poorest handling, 4-speed versions of this legendary car. That said, it is those very qualities that have resonated with buyers to the point where long-time owners are putting their cars up for sale and seeing what the current market will bring.
"Smokey and the Bandit" Firebird Trans-Ams have seen a recent, fairly significant rise in pricing overall, and one signed by Burt Reynolds either sold, or was being offered, for $350k. There is absolutely no justification for prices like that, even on a one-time basis, but the collector car market is a funny thing, and trying to predict future "winners" is as difficult as ascertaining which styles will be popular with your wives/girlfriends 20-years from now.
Ken.
#28
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My Supra was a fluke and I know it well. Glad I can sell it for more than I paid for it after driving it 120k miles.
#29
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You guys need to inform yourselves by joining Bring-A-Trailer.com (or something similar). There are plenty of cars with automatic transmissions that are appreciating in price. I mean, an auto tranny has never held back certain desirable AMGs and you can't get a Ferrari with a manual transmission any more. Just because we think of cars with a manual transmission as more collectible, the rest of the world sees it differently. There was an article last week by a mainstream publication that lamented the dearth of cars with a manual transmission. I'll post a link if I can find it.
Ken.
Ken.
Why Are Manual Transmissions Disappearing?
![](http://static-autos-wus-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/sc/9b/e151e5.gif)
U.S. News & World Report - CarsEric C. Evarts1/31/2017
Manual transmissions used to be popular for their lower up-front cost, better fuel economy, generally greater durability, and greater driving involvement for enthusiasts. Only now, nobody wants to be involved. “You used to have all these check marks why you buy a manual transmission,” says Paul Seredynski, Ford's manager of performance and powertrain communications. “Those are all gone now,” he says, because automatics have gotten so much better. “The vast, vast majority of people want automatics.”
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It's gotten to the point that Car and Driver magazine, the bible of automotive enthusiasm, has started a campaign and developed its own Twitter hashtag to #SavetheManuals. But it hasn't gained much traction among the general population or among automakers.The latest figures show only about five percent of cars are sold with a stick shift. The numbers peaked at about 25 and 30 percent of production in 1987 for cars and 1990 for trucks, according to EPA statistics. They've seen a steady decline since. Now manual transmissions are relegated mostly to sports cars, such as the Mazda Miata and the Ford Mustang. They are even getting hard to come by in exotic cars like Ferraris and Lamborghinis. You can get one in a smattering of compact cars and a single midsized offering in the Mazda6. A few small SUVs also offer manuals, but mostly on loss-leader two-wheel drive models. You can’t even buy a full size pickup with a manual transmission any longer. “Manual transmissions make up a fairly small number, and that number tends to decrease rapidly as you move up the model line-up for any car,” says Michael McHale, Subaru's director of communications.
You may why there is such a lack of interest in what used to be a rite of passage to acquiring a standard life skill, but it is mostly because of economics, technology, regulation, and social factors. Benefits that used to define manual transmissions have now been surpassed by automatics.
New automatically controlled continuously variable transmissions (CVTs) have the potential to get even better gas mileage. “We saw a big drop in manuals when we introduced the CVT with much better fuel-economy,” says McHale.
As drivers encounter more of these excellent modern automatics, fewer are interested in learning to drive a manual. The numbers are vague when looking for a percentage of people who at least know how to drive a stick, but they range from a high of 60 percent to a low of just 18 percent. “If you're of a certain age, you may never even have seen one,” says Seredynski.
That trend is accelerating with help from a multitude societal factors such as traffic congestion, advanced infotainment systems, and even autonomous driving. “For manual models to exist, there has to be a way for those models to seamlessly be able to accommodate technology without distraction,” says Jacob Brown, a product communications specialist with Mazda, who probably sells a higher percentage of manuals than any other automaker today. Even drivers who might prefer a manual are thinking twice before buying one to sit in traffic on their daily commutes.
With so few people buying sticks depreciation has also become a big issue. Resale values can be $2,000 less for a manual than the same car with an automatic, according to residual statistics. Few dealers stock them because they can be extremely difficult to sell.
With fewer sales, it makes less and less economic sense for dealers to stock them and for automakers to build them. One automaker executive noted that each separate powertrain offered in a car (the combination of engine and transmission) costs nearly $1 million to certify for fuel-economy and emissions requirements. “Once you get below about five percent,” McHale says, “it starts to get hard to do.”
Even in relatively mainstream cars buyers who want a manual transmission are willing to pay for it. Mazda sells three times the percentage of manual transmissions in highly equipped Mazda3s Grand Tourings as it does in entry-level Mazda3i Sports.
There's a joke going around about the best automotive anti-theft device on the market. The punchline? A manual transmission.
#30
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Sorry to hear you had to sell yours. I thought I was going to have to sell mine once I picked up the ISF due to lack of space, but I made it work. Luckily my wife is into cars
LOL
Damn only 100 bux in repairs is crazy low! I haven't really had to do much to mine other than routine maintenance, it's been good to me. But I did blow my rear diff once years ago, but luckily my car was still under warranty at the time, so nothing out of my pocket for that repair. I have an AP1, so I'm sure you know the rear diff was a weak spot on them, it was addressed and fixed on the AP2's.
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Damn only 100 bux in repairs is crazy low! I haven't really had to do much to mine other than routine maintenance, it's been good to me. But I did blow my rear diff once years ago, but luckily my car was still under warranty at the time, so nothing out of my pocket for that repair. I have an AP1, so I'm sure you know the rear diff was a weak spot on them, it was addressed and fixed on the AP2's.