Weapon F

You said it brother this thread has run its course, Kolyan is fixated on proving his point no matter what the empirical data says so that's cool he is entitled to his opinion. But I'll tell you this if I were on M3post or Brimmerpost being non owner they would have called me troll before ever reach this point. So Kolyan you found the ISF to be too pricey and was unwilling to pay the price being asked for them that's fine no problem and you moved on so enjoy your two series BMW its nice little car. Lets shut this thread down as it's no longer providing any useful information whatsoever.

kolyan

This whole agreement came up after that $47k ISF was listed, which is clearly overpriced. It doesn't mean they hold their value or appreciate, all it means is that it's overpriced. I think we both know that.
I pop up in "every" thread the same way you and few others pop up in the same threads saying that $47k ISF with 35k miles is a great deal. I think it's more useful for potential owners to know that it's BS and you can buy the same car for much cheaper, no? I provide links too, so it's clear that I am not lying or anything.

I don't think it's relevant where my dealership was and it's name, I don't have one now. My offer on that ISF last year was $33k. Yes CPO clean low miles will cost more obviously (but not always), we had a few here listed for $41k with 20k miles. I don't want to argue anymore, it's useless. Especially since you make alot of stuff up and others just edit and remove posts so it all looks like I am the bad guy here....

USB2011JAM

Ahhhhh, ok... got ya... No its definitely not relevant, thats 1 thing you're correct on... I was just going to call you out on it when I looked it up in one of the several systems I have access to, to see if you indeed did own a dealership... But doesn't look like I need to any longer, your response answered it for us all... But like I said earlier, most of the people I've met that owned car dealerships?... Lets just say... They're the type of people that REALLY don't care about ISFs at all, because they typically have multiple Ferraris or they don't have time to play around on forums...So we'll put that one to bed too.

Have a great night

FilwithanF

iTrader: (1)

That's not at all what he said, but ok.... That report also shows what cars sold for at auctions, not at dealerships at retail. I agree that this thread has become useless because we've all shared our opinions, and now it's become arguing. Let's agree to disagree.

Vitveet

All that is true^^^
And for the record, I never said the $47k '12 F was a good deal. But I garantee it'll sell for around $44k. And it won't sit there for long.
Some people could care less about resale value.... Especially if you don't plan to resale the car. I personally wouldn't sell my '12 F with 33k miles on it for anything under $60k (which obviously no one would buy for that price) so different strokes for different folks. I love the car and don't care if the value is $20k, I'm loving ownership of it👍

V.

Vitveet

Just called the dealership and they said they've had about 6 calls from Friday thru today (Mon) about that car. Asked what is the lowest price they would do on it and he said $45,800.....So that's a few thousand off. 2 year unlimited mile warranty.

V.

ZaxF

iTrader: (3)

So to touch on the manhiem data posted earlier, this is the actual sales data of 2012 ISF. A few things to note here:

1. The most recent sale was for a F with over 70k, which would fall into an average book car for miles/year, sold for $33.2k

2. The highest sale was for an extra clean book car in October of last year for $38.5k

3. The market dictates the value of the car, in October the '12 was only considered 4 model years old, as of March 1, its 5 years old. It also falls into a luxury car market where approximately 10k miles/year is assumed. More than that reduces value.

4. Current Books on a 2012 ISF are XC: 37.4 C:35.8 A: 31.8 R: 26.4. This is from Black Book, the industry standard for values. A '13 carries about a $4.9k add to those books, and a '14, $9.7k above. A '10, deduct about $7.6 from the 2012 base value.

5. The F is a depreciating asset, must like every other car out there. It's rare, which is why the Manheim data doesn't show 200 transactions over the past 3 weeks like it would for an Altima.

At the end of the day, a dealer is going to mark up a car to whatever they want to sell if for, and they may have too much in it and aren't willing to lose anything. Shop for your good deals, they're out there. I bought my '12 with 42k on it 2.5 years ago for $37.5 private sale, about $9k less than a dealer retail.

Use wholesale data to determine what your trade in is worth, and don't be afraid to bargain for a couple grand more.

Justind27

iTrader: (6)

Don't plan to sell, besides it's been wrecked so I might as well just enjoy the thing.

Lextasy4

Current listings for 2012 (listed prices not sold prices). No price analysis on 2013 or 2014, likely because there are not enough listings.

harkirath

Actually only about 20 miles from me. Been wanting to move into an IS-F too. Problem is I have 1 year left on my 15 IS 350 lease and there is an accident on it. Car in front of me hit a tire on the freeway and smashed it into my bumper and passenger door. No frame or mechanical damange. Repaired good as new. But doubt I can get out of it early without being under.

spacexmase

*** EDIT *** IT SAYS MANHEIM DUHH...

Re-phrasing my question. What is Manheim? The German KBB?


Mr. USB,

I respect your knowledge and input.
What program is this from? This interface looks awesome!

Thanks,

Mase

USB2011JAM

This is a program that (mostly) licensed dealers have access to, its supposed to be "dealers" although I'm sure some have slipped through the cracks. Manheim is the worlds largest Auto Auction (Dealer access only). We sold @5 million cars last year through our auctions. Don't think like salvaged insurance auctions, or the commercials you see saying "i got a car for 1 dollar!!" but more this is dealer sourcing and liquidating inventory for their lots.

Manheim is connected with most OEMs (think Toyota, Ford, Lexus, Honda, Nissan etc) and sell their used fleet cars, or lease returns, we also sell cars for many of the largest banks (Chase, Santander, etc) these a lot of times are also fleets, or cars that have been repo'd. They're connected with insurance companies, government agencies, rental car companies, as well as dealers. So any of those entities needing to liquidate or acquire used vehicle inventory has access, and that interface is something called MMR, Manheim Market Report, its a market pricing valuation tool we provide to dealers to know what cars are selling for updated almost daily, at auction. So its the most accurate "trusted" source of used vehicle pricing, because it is almost real time what a car is worth (wholesale) at any given time of actual real transactions, not strictly an algorithm that tries to "predict".

Now there are a lot of compensation factors to be considered, which is why its for dealers as a "tool" they use it as a starting point or gauge when purchasing a used vehicle, trade in or regular retail inventory. NADA, Blackbook, Kelly, etc, are the valuation tools that banks use to figure loan to value ratios on a retail transaction, and it has since morphed into what the public consumers also try to use as a gauge or trusted source of a good deal. Again, compensating factors must be used by the consumer just like the dealer, when buying or selling a car. Such as rarity, color, condition, options, etc etc etc.

So think of that interface as what dealers use as their internal version of "KBB, or NADA", but its built from real transactional data at Manheim Auctions across the country. Dealers usually will use a combination of MMR, KBB, NADA, Blackbook, and their gut when making a purchasing decision, as well as tools like VAuto which will tell them market days supply, what the going retail pricing is, how quickly it should sell, when to liquidate it etc.

Also bear in mind this MMR is does not account for any auction fees, transportation, reconditioning, certifications, etc etc etc, that a dealer will pay when acquiring inventory, so MMR is usually lower then trade in value, because any good dealer will figure those costs into acquisition price (cost) when buying a car. While a "trade-in" usually won't have transport costs, auction fees, etc.

Manheim.com (won't get very far with out a login but take a look) and the parent company of Manheim is CoxAutoInc.com, there you can see all the different automotive brands we have, mostly dealer facing products. Autotrader Kelly Blue Book, and Dealer.com the 3 publicly visible companies if not a dealership.

2URGSE

I really don't understand why you're on this forum. According to you, almost every IS-F is "overpriced", and you found every possible reason not to buy an IS-F.

Can you please explain the definition (or your definition) of "overpriced" ?

kolyan

No sure why you quoted a 2 month old post.....forum mod already said not to provoke this ****, so dont be stupid.

CandyApplF

Hello all, figured I should introduce myself as many of the recent comments in this thread have been directed toward V's post above. Yes I purchased this F about a month ago and paid close to asking price for this specific example even though i originally offered much less for the vehicle. Soon realized they weren't going to come down much off their asking price and a couple weeks later I returned to purchase it. While some of you believe it was overpriced, I thought it was priced accurately for a number of the following reasons..

For starters, it was a low mileage 12' F with a rare color combination that I absolutely loved after seeing it in person, and I looked at many (I even traveled all the way to Ohio from NC to look at one but it wasn't in the type of condition I was looking for.) This specific F came with nearly every option for that year and was a local certified vehicle. The exterior and interior were in excellent condition and all service records, either at 5,000 miles or 6 months were accounted for on the clean Carfax. The added carbon fiber roof spoiler and engine bay in matching matador red were just bonuses on this color that already popped in person. Vehicle had brand new tires and relatively new pads all the way around. Lastly, I plan to DD this car for a long time and have no plans on selling it for at least a decade. The sales staff were friendly and knowledgeable about this specific vehicle as they had sold it once before to the owner who had it before me for about a year but barely drove it and garaged it the entire time. I should also point out that they gave me a free NAV upgrade and replaced both headlights for free as they both had minor bubbling, a week after purchasing (roughly $3500 in parts and labor).

So to help answer the OP's question, if you've been looking for a specific F for awhile and a low mileage one comes up in great condition both inside and out, don't be afraid to jump on it quickly even if you "think" it's overpriced. Dealerships most of the time know exactly what they have and if you don't buy it near asking price, someone else will likely pull the trigger as they only sold about 5,100 of these cars in the US.