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Oh I saw. I used to run 19x9 et 40 with 275/30 square.
He is essentially running a 19x10 plus 20mm offset (40 offset, plus 20 spacer), with a 275/35 tire. His fenders/quarters are ruined IMO, which is a combination of shaved,rolled, plus pulled. To fit those tires and that offset, he would have to pull the fenders.
Lance had to trim with 30 mm less offset. I can’t imagine he didn’t aggressively modify his fenders. Those wheels/spacers just don’t fit our chassis.
The front probably doesn’t have much left of the fender liners either.
This may be a trash/treasure scenario. I don’t do body mods to preserve the original integrity of the car, especially to the quarters since they can’t be easily replaced. The above may not bother you though, which is also alright.
As you know, I’ve been a desk racer as of late. I’m sure your buddy is hands down funner then me 😂. I’m glad he is enjoying his car.
Im staring down the barrel of a spinal
procedure, and if all goes well, ill
imagine the three of us will get to know each other well at mid-Ohio.
I have been on the sidelines chomping through a box of popcorn on the multi-thread "will-it-fit" 18in wheel topic. Now that it is clear to me that the car is under-tired up front from the factory*, I am keenly interested in getting more width up front and the square, -1 setup is highly attractive. (* Be kind, this is a Captain Obvious comment, but I had to prove it to myself by baselining the OEM setup. It seems a shame to compromise the capable factory brakes and simultaneously ensure perpetual understeer with a 225 section width.)
So, jumping into the fray with some comments and questions, primarily directed to @lexicon72 and @Jwconeil
1) Process check on Front brake clearance: I have mangled 2 wheel woolies cleaning the '08 OEM 19in wheels on MY11. The close clearance is between the dust/splash shield and the barrel of the wheel. The OEM barrel steps to a larger ID at the inboard edge, inboard of the dust shield. Has anyone in the 18in it-fits-for-me discussion removed the front dust shields or done anything to modify the factory front brake dust/splash shields? I suppose the aftermarket 18x9.5 ET45 options (Enkei PF01, WedsSport SA-10R, Volk TE37, etc) have thinner barrel sections than the 19in OEM wheels despite their smaller OD. They may also step to a larger ID further outboard of the dust/splash shields. These features never show up in catalog photos, and nobody publishes wheel cross sections per size any more. Interested in observations from owners with 18in wheels.
2) Front sidewall inboard clearance: Can anyone with the 18x9.5 ET45 275/35 setup take a photo of the clearance between the front upright and the inner tire sidewall? To my lizard brain, this is the most serious clearance issue up front...the the outside front deflects laterally when loaded up in a corner. Rubbing on a speed bump is irritating, rubbing under lateral load at full send could be dangerous. I suspect we would have heard from @lexicon72 if this was an issue for him on track, but a photo = 1e6 words.
3) Mulling over optimal tire size: In comparing 275/35 vs 265/40 for Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, the tread width difference is 0.3in (<10mm). Perhaps more important is the lower than 26in OEM diameter 275 (25.6in) vs the higher diameter 265 (26.3in). With a lowered suspension, the 275 may well provide more clearance at the outer sidewall in the rear due to diameter alone and has the additional benefit of slightly shorter gearing. Interested in comments from @Jwconeil who I think has tried both tires sizes on 18in(?).
4) Zany idea on rear outer sidewall clearance: Owners clearly have vastly different comfort levels with modifying the rear fender lips. Other than tire type variations (perhaps best captured in the "tread width" dimension?), I wonder if some of the variability in rear rubbing results is due to car-to-car differences in rear subframe location. That dimensional tolerance is likely small, but then again, so is tire-to-tire variability.
...I wonder if some of the variability in rear rubbing results is due to car-to-car differences in rear subframe location. That dimensional tolerance is likely small, but then again, so is tire-to-tire variability.
Mine rubs on one side only. Tells me the rear subframe isn't centered properly for sure.
I have been on the sidelines chomping through a box of popcorn on the multi-thread "will-it-fit" 18in wheel topic. Now that it is clear to me that the car is under-tired up front from the factory*, I am keenly interested in getting more width up front and the square, -1 setup is highly attractive. (* Be kind, this is a Captain Obvious comment, but I had to prove it to myself by baselining the OEM setup. It seems a shame to compromise the capable factory brakes and simultaneously ensure perpetual understeer with a 225 section width.)
So, jumping into the fray with some comments and questions, primarily directed to @lexicon72 and @Jwconeil
1) Process check on Front brake clearance: I have mangled 2 wheel woolies cleaning the '08 OEM 19in wheels on MY11. The close clearance is between the dust/splash shield and the barrel of the wheel. The OEM barrel steps to a larger ID at the inboard edge, inboard of the dust shield. Has anyone in the 18in it-fits-for-me discussion removed the front dust shields or done anything to modify the factory front brake dust/splash shields? I suppose the aftermarket 18x9.5 ET45 options (Enkei PF01, WedsSport SA-10R, Volk TE37, etc) have thinner barrel sections than the 19in OEM wheels despite their smaller OD. They may also step to a larger ID further outboard of the dust/splash shields. These features never show up in catalog photos, and nobody publishes wheel cross sections per size any more. Interested in observations from owners with 18in wheels.
2) Front sidewall inboard clearance: Can anyone with the 18x9.5 ET45 275/35 setup take a photo of the clearance between the front upright and the inner tire sidewall? To my lizard brain, this is the most serious clearance issue up front...the the outside front deflects laterally when loaded up in a corner. Rubbing on a speed bump is irritating, rubbing under lateral load at full send could be dangerous. I suspect we would have heard from @lexicon72 if this was an issue for him on track, but a photo = 1e6 words.
3) Mulling over optimal tire size: In comparing 275/35 vs 265/40 for Michelin Pilot Sport 4S, the tread width difference is 0.3in (<10mm). Perhaps more important is the lower than 26in OEM diameter 275 (25.6in) vs the higher diameter 265 (26.3in). With a lowered suspension, the 275 may well provide more clearance at the outer sidewall in the rear due to diameter alone and has the additional benefit of slightly shorter gearing. Interested in comments from @Jwconeil who I think has tried both tires sizes on 18in(?).
4) Zany idea on rear outer sidewall clearance: Owners clearly have vastly different comfort levels with modifying the rear fender lips. Other than tire type variations (perhaps best captured in the "tread width" dimension?), I wonder if some of the variability in rear rubbing results is due to car-to-car differences in rear subframe location. That dimensional tolerance is likely small, but then again, so is tire-to-tire variability.
1) I have modified nothing to fit my TEs. I have around 1 inch of clearance between my brake heat shield and the barrel.
2)
This is at full lock, which I believe reduces clearance. I cannot speak on the suspension cycle with authority, so anyone else is free to correct me. I have concluded this because my measurement with the wheels straight seemed to have more clearance. Less than 1/8 inch clearance in this photo, measured by trying to jam a 1/8 thick paint stirrer in between. I’ve never seen any evidence of rubbing with my 265/40 Pilot Sport or my older 275/30/19s (roughly same width), and I’ve looked for rubbing. I don’t think the distance here changes much during suspension travel. If it does, it isn’t much.
3) I ran 275/30/19 and now 285/35/18 drag radials in the rear. Both were very close to the outside lip. The 275 tucked without any rubbing. My 285 rubs only slightly under very hard cornering on the driver side, telling me my rear subframe needs centered. That has happened maybe three times. I’ll address that soon, hopefully. It never rubs on the right. The 275 had more clearance, but that’s obvious. 285 drag radials aren’t narrow. The 265/40 gives a nice ride in the front. Plenty of sidewall cushion. My next tires will be 275/35. They have Slightly better gearing, and a square setup for HPDE. The tire height won’t change clearance issues substantially enough to matter. Under very hard compression, either size will tuck slightly.
4) See above. You will have zero rubbing issues unless your subframe isn’t evenly placed like Lance’s or my car. This seems to be common in this platform. I’m staunchly against fender mods, as I have seen many ruined cars from it. Rolled lips trap moisture, crack paint and causes rust. You can repaint the outside, but not the inside of a rolled lip. I’ve seen many people roll fenders in Indiana, and a matter of years later their wheel arches were rotten. That’s why i said Lexicon’s buddy ruined his car. It’s because he drastically reduced its longevity and integrity. It’ll start rotting now, unless he shaved it (instead of rolling) before pulling. As long as it’s painted, it’ll be fine… except now the quarters don’t have the same integrity. Those inner lips give the wheel arch structural integrity. So you can take my word that I’m very sensitive to outside wheel clearance on OEM quarters. The slight rubbing bugs me. I’ll fix it and make sure any paint that was rubbed is touched up.
Unfortunately my 18s are off the car and the OEMs back on for the winter, so I can't take any pics.
However I also have made zero modifications to my fenders, dust shields or anything else. I'm. owered about 1.5 inches and do not rub on the street or track. I did rub briefly on track when I added my wing, but went with stiffer springs and no more rubbing. Clearance is not an issue with my setup. I had the same concerns but enough ppl went with this setup which gave me comfort before purchasing.
^^Thank you for the thoughtful and detailed responses.
I measured diagonal rear fender gaps and the rear subframe is clearly not centered relative to the fenders: 2-finger gap on one side, 2.3-finger gap on the other.
Square rim sizes but staggered tires 18x10+40 275/295
Considering getting a square setup in 18x9.5 with the Volk CE28sl for my ISF. Does anybody have any more photos of ISF`s with 18 inch ce28 wheels? Thanks
Sorry for the late reply. Not on here very much. +38 won't be a problem if you go with a narrower tire. Or you can do other creative things such as roll your fenders. Depends on suspension set up and your alignment.
Enkei PF01: 18x9.5, ET45, 5x114.3, Black (part# 460-895-6645BK) with Continental DWS 6+: 275/35R-18
From Tire Rack: great service as usual, local pickup option is fantastic
MY08 OEM Samurai Blade front wheel with 225/40 Michelin A/S3+ @ 12k miles. 48.6lbs, scale display to nearest 0.2lb. MY08 OEM Samurai Blade rear wheel with 255/35 Michelin A/S3+ @ 12k miles. 52.2 lbs, scale display to nearest 0.2lb.
Width comparison. MY08 OEM front wheel at right, rear wheel in center.
Chose 17mm hex (M12x1.5) closed-end lug nuts to enable use of nylon-sleeved socket, attempting to avoid scars on narrow and deep lug wells. Backlit to show front brake caliper clearance.
1/8in to 3/16in clearance to front upright (EDIT checked again = 3/16in to 1/4in), estimated using a long screwdriver. No rubbing detected here. Close clearance at front suspension upright. Closer view of close clearance.
Only rubbing I have detected is on right front fender liner at or near full left steering lock. The outer shoulder block has caught and bent a "fin" opening on the fender liner. I bent the fin back in. After benchmark drive.
Observations after driving for a few days and benchmark canyon run:
1) More front grip, makes car feel more agile, smaller, lighter.
2) Better braking even in street driving. One of my biggest complaints about the Michelin A/S 3's is that their grip decays precipitously beyond ~5/32 tread depth. It seems like the compound vulcanizes or something. We shall see how the Conti's do.
3) More comfortable ride over broken pavement. Not surprising given taller sidewalls and "free" compression damping from slightly less unsprung mass.
4) Less precision and more secondary motion when the car is loaded up laterally, which I am attributing to sidewall flex. An unfortunate tradeoff vs #'s 1-3. I miss the old precision but love the new grip.
Last edited by ChpEng; 06-28-22 at 10:05 PM.
Reason: grammar correction
11-03-21, 05:29 PM
