gsf or rcf
05-02-19, 01:17 PM
#16
Lexus Test Driver
RCF is much smaller, lower seating position, with lower CoG and also rotates close to the rear axle as you sit close to the rear. It weighs around 100 lbs less and 8.5 inches shorter. Also, it feels stiffer. The size difference is apparent in all driving conditions. Although, RCF feels more twitchy/darty pushing hard over rapidly changing road camber than the stable GSF. Most likely, due to the short wheelbase.
With the longer wheelbase and length, GSF has better practicality, stability, predictability and luxury while RCF is the more driver oriented car of the two.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-02-19 at 02:21 PM.
05-02-19, 05:50 PM
#18
Don't want to make it a comparison thread, but RCF is the more driver oriented car of the two. That is what came out of a comparison by Christian Menzel in Germany. That is the trade off as I have driven both of them back to back before buying the RCF. Only thing is, GSF has TVD standard while RCF gets it as part of the optional carbon package.
RCF is much smaller, lower seating position, with lower CoG and also rotates close to the rear axle as you sit close to the rear. It weighs around 100 lbs less and 8.5 inches shorter. Also, it feels stiffer. The size difference is apparent in all driving conditions. Although, RCF feels more twitchy/darty pushing hard over rapidly changing road camber than the stable GSF. Most likely, due to the short wheelbase.
With the longer wheelbase and length, GSF has better practicality, stability, predictability and luxury while RCF is the more driver oriented car of the two.
RCF is much smaller, lower seating position, with lower CoG and also rotates close to the rear axle as you sit close to the rear. It weighs around 100 lbs less and 8.5 inches shorter. Also, it feels stiffer. The size difference is apparent in all driving conditions. Although, RCF feels more twitchy/darty pushing hard over rapidly changing road camber than the stable GSF. Most likely, due to the short wheelbase.
With the longer wheelbase and length, GSF has better practicality, stability, predictability and luxury while RCF is the more driver oriented car of the two.
05-02-19, 06:12 PM
#20
Lexus Test Driver
I've also driven both back to back at the track, hence my statement. To me, as well as most of the people that drove both back to back, the gsf is the drivers car. This was such a disappointment to me because I like the looks of the rcf. The gsf has noticeably better driving dynamics.
RCF : 1:56.4@235 km/h
GSF: 1:59.5@ 232 km/h
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-02-19 at 06:17 PM.
05-02-19, 06:19 PM
#21
That is simple physics GSF is a much bigger, heavier and taller car with a softer setup. Those are your own subjective opinions as the same race car driver who drove them on the same track and same conditions does not agree with you. I could post many more objective facts, but this gets my point across.
RCF : 1:56@235 km/h
GSF: 1:59@ 232 km/h
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UdJ5e6EbVm8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WXecA6d_tA
RCF : 1:56@235 km/h
GSF: 1:59@ 232 km/h
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UdJ5e6EbVm8
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6WXecA6d_tA
05-02-19, 07:47 PM
#22
Moderator
If you prefer coupes, then that’s fine. There is a lot of value in a sedan though. My buddies and I rarely take my car due to space constraints. Performance wise, the RCF and GSF are very similar on paper. Does anyone know if they have the same trans as the ISF?
Id buy the GSF for numerous reasons. The RCF does look better to me, though.
Id buy the GSF for numerous reasons. The RCF does look better to me, though.
05-02-19, 09:39 PM
#23
Lexus Test Driver
Yes, it was updated to handle the high-revving nature of the new 2UR. The 2020 RCF and the track edition get a shorter final drive with launch control.
New or redesigned parts include:
Digging Into the Metal
DRIVETRAIN
Eight-Speed SPDS Transmission
The RC F 5.0-liter V8 finds the ideal dance partner in a specially tuned version of the
eight-speed Sports Direct Shift (SPDS) transmission. Refined to suit the RC F’s new engine higher engine speeds, the transmission control program delivers a more linear response to accelerator input, and hence a more dynamic feeling.
The transmission offers the driver four selectable modes – NORMAL, SPORT S, SPORT S+, and M. The last one is of course for Manual, and in this mode, the SPDS applies full torque-converter lock-up from second to eighth gears for “clutchless” manual shifting. Upshifts are made in just 0.1-second in M mode, with the transmission’s throttle blipping control matching the engine speed to the gear.
The transmission’s SPORT S mode engages G-sensor AI-Shift control, which uses information from the vehicle’s G-sensors to provide the optimal gear ratio for more dynamic acceleration control.
In addition to performing quicker downshifts than SPORT S mode, SPORT S+ mode fosters more dynamic driving during high load conditions such as in track driving. The transmission will automatically downshift during hard braking for a corner, hold a lower gear through the corner for greater control, and then give the driver a greater power response on corner exit by selecting a suitable low gear.
For the rare times when an RC F driver wants to take a leisurely cruise, NORMAL mode provides the seamless acceleration traditionally associated with a Lexus electronically controlled transmission.
New or redesigned parts include:
- Cylinder heads and cam covers
- Crankshaft: crank pin diameter, connecting rod big-end bearing size and crank counter-weight size are all reduced, to reduce reciprocating weight
- Crank main bearings and caps
- High-strength forged connecting rods
- Pistons and piston rings
- Titanium inlet and exhaust valves
- Intake manifold and throttle body
- Redesigned Variable Valve Timing-intelligent Electric motor (VVT-iE)
- Revised Lexus D-4S dual injection system
- Four-into-one exhaust headers and heat insulators
- Oil pan and baffle plate
- Alternator clutch system
- Engine and transmission oil coolers
- Spark plugs
Digging Into the Metal
- The new cylinder heads improve the 2UR-GSE engine’s breathing with improved porting and a high-flow/high tumble ratio. In addition, intake surge-tank capacity has been optimized, as have the intake manifold runner length and diameter.
- The new oil pan baffle shape reduces agitation and hence friction, while new air-to-oil coolers for the engine oil and transmission fluid increase track suitability.
- The Lexus D-4S dual-injection system has been redesigned, with higher injection pressure of 2,611 psi and improved fuel atomization.
- The throttle diameter was increased by 10 percent, from 3 to 3.3 inches (84 mm).
- A new intake camshaft profile increases valve lift and suits the Atkinson cycle, while improvements to the electronic VVT-iE system have expanded its range of operation for increased fuel economy and performance.
- New four-into-two exhaust headers help reduce interference and hence further improve engine breathing. The larger-diameter exhaust system is designed to reduce backpressure and sound amazing, especially under acceleration. At the same time, the main muffler keeps things from getting too rowdy at lower speeds.
- As a final touch, the new 2UR-GSE engine has a one-way clutch on the alternator pulley.
DRIVETRAIN
Eight-Speed SPDS Transmission
The RC F 5.0-liter V8 finds the ideal dance partner in a specially tuned version of the
eight-speed Sports Direct Shift (SPDS) transmission. Refined to suit the RC F’s new engine higher engine speeds, the transmission control program delivers a more linear response to accelerator input, and hence a more dynamic feeling.
The transmission offers the driver four selectable modes – NORMAL, SPORT S, SPORT S+, and M. The last one is of course for Manual, and in this mode, the SPDS applies full torque-converter lock-up from second to eighth gears for “clutchless” manual shifting. Upshifts are made in just 0.1-second in M mode, with the transmission’s throttle blipping control matching the engine speed to the gear.
The transmission’s SPORT S mode engages G-sensor AI-Shift control, which uses information from the vehicle’s G-sensors to provide the optimal gear ratio for more dynamic acceleration control.
In addition to performing quicker downshifts than SPORT S mode, SPORT S+ mode fosters more dynamic driving during high load conditions such as in track driving. The transmission will automatically downshift during hard braking for a corner, hold a lower gear through the corner for greater control, and then give the driver a greater power response on corner exit by selecting a suitable low gear.
For the rare times when an RC F driver wants to take a leisurely cruise, NORMAL mode provides the seamless acceleration traditionally associated with a Lexus electronically controlled transmission.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-02-19 at 09:43 PM.
05-03-19, 12:39 PM
#25
I chose the GS-F as it is more rare and its a NA V8 Sedan. Can't go wrong with that IMO. I came from a E90 M3 6MT.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...talking-about/
https://www.driving.co.uk/car-review...16-lexus-gs-f/
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...any-supercars/
Also the GS-F almost receives no criticism from journalist while the RCF reviews are mixed, I am not sure if it's due to the optional TVD or the Frankenstein chassis (IS/GS/ISC)
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...talking-about/
https://www.driving.co.uk/car-review...16-lexus-gs-f/
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...any-supercars/
Also the GS-F almost receives no criticism from journalist while the RCF reviews are mixed, I am not sure if it's due to the optional TVD or the Frankenstein chassis (IS/GS/ISC)
05-03-19, 01:21 PM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Some issues have been addressed in 2020 RCF, like the watered down MPSS we get have been replaced with aggressive, stiff sidewalls RCF-Spec MPS4S tires that will make the front end grip harder.
Also, the expectations/timing of it (RCF followed LFA thinking it will be a scaled-down LFA). However, there are far more positive reviews than there are negative one's. Contentious issues are, it is considered on the heavy for its 2-door compact sports coupe competing with the M3/M4. There were no such expectations of GSF, which was mostly compared against m550i, which is actually heavier than the GSF and GSF did well against. I would say, GSF is the lightest in the mid-size performance segment.
Regarding Frankenstein chassis, it was greatly misunderstood. The chassis was designed using three different chassis, but in the end it is a unibody construction just like any other chassis. It has very high torsional rigidity because of the bracings in the door, trunk, underbody and struts it was going to be both coupe/convertible without the need for additional reinforcements when the roof was chopped off. So while the chassis is extremely stiff, it is heavier than cars like M4 etc.It is not because it is a frankenstein chassis, but because the reinforcements added weight especially when you see those huge beams in the doors.
Motor Trend had run this "5 reasons to buy GSF or RCF" and it was a well-written article and their Chuckwalla raceway experiences.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/gs-f...e-sedan-coupe/
GET THE GS F: TRACK PERFORMANCE
When you're aggressively throwing your car into a turn, you want to make sure you're not going to run out of talent and find yourself in the gravel. Sitting in the F-brand exclusive sport seats with our HJC SI-12R helmet on, the driving position was perfectly comfortable, giving us the peace of mind to power through a corner and gun it on the straights. However, the RC F provides slightly smaller interior dimensions, leaving us feeling slightly cramped with our helmet on. Because the GS F is slightly heavier than the RC F, the sedan felt more planted on the track, like we could push it further than we normally would have. The level of confidence it gives a driver on the track is great.
GET THE RC F: TRACK PERFORMANCE
Where the GS F felt firm and planted, the RC F felt like it wanted to be driven hard. Using the same 467-hp, 5.0-liter V-8 engine, the RC F powered aggressively through corners on the Chuckwalla Valley Raceway. With its smaller dimensions, the drive was more aggressive, enabling the driver to push the limits even further than the GS F. Because the GS F is larger and heavier, even if it's only by roughly 80 pounds, it didn't offer as sporty of a drive as the RC F. When it comes to driving on the track, hands down, the RC F is the way to go.
Last edited by 05RollaXRS; 05-03-19 at 03:09 PM.
05-03-19, 02:43 PM
#27
I chose the GS-F as it is more rare and its a NA V8 Sedan. Can't go wrong with that IMO. I came from a E90 M3 6MT.
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...talking-about/
https://www.driving.co.uk/car-review...16-lexus-gs-f/
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...any-supercars/
Also the GS-F almost receives no criticism from journalist while the RCF reviews are mixed, I am not sure if it's due to the optional TVD or the Frankenstein chassis (IS/GS/ISC)
https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...talking-about/
https://www.driving.co.uk/car-review...16-lexus-gs-f/
https://www.carthrottle.com/post/the...any-supercars/
Also the GS-F almost receives no criticism from journalist while the RCF reviews are mixed, I am not sure if it's due to the optional TVD or the Frankenstein chassis (IS/GS/ISC)
05-03-19, 03:10 PM
#28
Driven the GSF, RCF LSD, RCF TVD back to back
GSF: easy to drive, more responsive turn in but soft as mentioned previously, understeer can easily be corrected with throttle to rotate the car.
RCF LSD: bit more heavy turn in but also felt more raw with the LSD stepping out if you gas too much but controllable
RCF TVD: TVD system helps rotate the car really well and it just sticks, felt very in control similar to GSF. Both RCF felt stiffer as mentioned.
The GSF felt great for everyday driver with occasional spirited driving and the RCF TVD was amazing in corners, but I personally liked how the LSD responded in the corners and was easy to grip/slip/slide even though it may have not been as fast in the corners.
GSF: easy to drive, more responsive turn in but soft as mentioned previously, understeer can easily be corrected with throttle to rotate the car.
RCF LSD: bit more heavy turn in but also felt more raw with the LSD stepping out if you gas too much but controllable
RCF TVD: TVD system helps rotate the car really well and it just sticks, felt very in control similar to GSF. Both RCF felt stiffer as mentioned.
The GSF felt great for everyday driver with occasional spirited driving and the RCF TVD was amazing in corners, but I personally liked how the LSD responded in the corners and was easy to grip/slip/slide even though it may have not been as fast in the corners.
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ping83 (06-11-22)
05-05-19, 05:09 AM
#30
I've also driven both back to back at the track, hence my statement. To me, as well as most of the people that drove both back to back, the gsf is the drivers car. This was such a disappointment to me because I like the looks of the rcf. The gsf has noticeably better driving dynamics.