What is your take on electric cars?
11-22-19, 08:39 PM
#16
Moderator
Thread Starter
To your first comment, petroleum while non/semi-renewable, is technically a natural resource. And there's a vision for building cars with solar energy. Musk is a visionary - and I mean that as a compliment. This generation needs a Rockefeller. I stand by my comment however, and do not see an entire car anywhere NEAR being built with just solar energy just yet.
Whenever I get into a discussion about petroleum-economics or peak oil, someone always screams global warming at me (not that you were, Jwconeil). But about Miami - I agree with you, and of course I agree that the climate is changing to the detriment of mankind. I talk about oil agnostic of both this & politics. There's a lot of inconvenient truths (pun intended Gore) people avoid regarding what life would truly be without oil.
Occasionally, I believe in humanity. This means I occasionally believe we're resilient. I would sooner think humanity would better cope with global warming over coping with no oil. There's no avoiding either, but the former is much more current. Let's hope future generations do what they can to plan ahead, and by all means, the Telsa in this argument is somewhat of a start for a small percentage of the world's consumption of oil. I cannot say we're truly "planning ahead" just yet, but we're scratching the surface.
Personally, I do what I can to not be wasteful, which I see a LOT of. Hell, there's a new burger joint in town here that serves all cokes in plastic. Not just larges - ALL sizes. Just IMAGINE the waste that'll be around a THOUSAND years because of these drinks. That is, until we learn to standardize plastic products (which come 100% from petroleum) to a plastic that's actually recyclable. Look, I own a Lexus ISF, I am not going to scream that I'm doing my part. But I'm certainly not going to eat at a place where I can't even opt-out of the super-size to avoid the g'damn plastic containers which we're under the illusion that can be recycled. That should be illegal & it tells me we're far from "planning ahead."
When I'm hungover, which I plan to be tomorrow morning, I'd sooner opt for the #2 at McD's, medium sized. Not because I can't throw down a super, but because I can't bring myself to throw another one of those plastic containers that come with the super-size in the trash. Yeah it sucks to throw a straw in the trash, but in strict moderation, quarter pounders are delicious. Anyway, I hate to be a negative Nancy, but I enjoy talking about this stuff, so please carry on.
Whenever I get into a discussion about petroleum-economics or peak oil, someone always screams global warming at me (not that you were, Jwconeil). But about Miami - I agree with you, and of course I agree that the climate is changing to the detriment of mankind. I talk about oil agnostic of both this & politics. There's a lot of inconvenient truths (pun intended Gore) people avoid regarding what life would truly be without oil.
Occasionally, I believe in humanity. This means I occasionally believe we're resilient. I would sooner think humanity would better cope with global warming over coping with no oil. There's no avoiding either, but the former is much more current. Let's hope future generations do what they can to plan ahead, and by all means, the Telsa in this argument is somewhat of a start for a small percentage of the world's consumption of oil. I cannot say we're truly "planning ahead" just yet, but we're scratching the surface.
Personally, I do what I can to not be wasteful, which I see a LOT of. Hell, there's a new burger joint in town here that serves all cokes in plastic. Not just larges - ALL sizes. Just IMAGINE the waste that'll be around a THOUSAND years because of these drinks. That is, until we learn to standardize plastic products (which come 100% from petroleum) to a plastic that's actually recyclable. Look, I own a Lexus ISF, I am not going to scream that I'm doing my part. But I'm certainly not going to eat at a place where I can't even opt-out of the super-size to avoid the g'damn plastic containers which we're under the illusion that can be recycled. That should be illegal & it tells me we're far from "planning ahead."
When I'm hungover, which I plan to be tomorrow morning, I'd sooner opt for the #2 at McD's, medium sized. Not because I can't throw down a super, but because I can't bring myself to throw another one of those plastic containers that come with the super-size in the trash. Yeah it sucks to throw a straw in the trash, but in strict moderation, quarter pounders are delicious. Anyway, I hate to be a negative Nancy, but I enjoy talking about this stuff, so please carry on.
My condo is small by American standards, and efficient. Sure, that can help me sleep better at night, but mostly because it’s just cheap to own. I plan to pay off my F, and pilot, and drive them and my older IS350 deep into the earth over hopefully many decades. But again, we are back to my own financial gain. Those are my investments, and I want them to pay off. The thought of starting over with electric cars would suck, it would cost me significant money.
I hate the idea of a carbon tax... but actually think it is a necessity for change. Then you would see solar and wind mills everywhere. Ford is jumping into the deep end of electric cars, with VW following suit. That will definitely bring down prices and push envelopes, but then we are back to your comments... where does the power come from? Do all buyers hang solar... probably not anytime in the coming decades. Eventually, yes... but not anytime soon.
I enjoy the conversation as well. No offense taken. Personally, my faith in mankind as a whole is very low when money is involved. I think drastic change will take an act of god. By my own comments, I clearly am not part of the solution. I highly respect Tesla for scratching the surface, but at this point, they are a drop in the bucket. I’m glad they are leading the way, and that other manufacturers are following suit.
On a lighter note, I’m installing carbon seats in my F this week. They are light, so easier to move... so in a way.... I’m saving the world
.
11-23-19, 06:48 AM
#18
There are 23,000 man hours of labour in a barrel of oil. Prior to it’s discovery the world survived on wind and solar. Ships sailed the globe on wind power.
wherever electricity is derived from coal all electric cars in That region are coal fired steam engines. Panama imports diesel to generate all her electricity so electric cars in Panama are run on diesel.
To me the the source of the electricity matters.
I will switch to an electric car when I am certain the origin of the electricity is either from a hydro project or nuclear. For now In Alberta a fuel fired car is less harmful to the environment than an electric car due to fuel source and emissions.
in the cold the electric cars lose their charge too quick which is another reason they are not as efficient as fuel fired not yet anyhow.
as for the Tesla it’s a wonderful car. Quiet technologically integrated great performance. Musk has built a pretty cool car Regardless of the needed subsidies.
wherever electricity is derived from coal all electric cars in That region are coal fired steam engines. Panama imports diesel to generate all her electricity so electric cars in Panama are run on diesel.
To me the the source of the electricity matters.
I will switch to an electric car when I am certain the origin of the electricity is either from a hydro project or nuclear. For now In Alberta a fuel fired car is less harmful to the environment than an electric car due to fuel source and emissions.
in the cold the electric cars lose their charge too quick which is another reason they are not as efficient as fuel fired not yet anyhow.
as for the Tesla it’s a wonderful car. Quiet technologically integrated great performance. Musk has built a pretty cool car Regardless of the needed subsidies.
11-23-19, 12:15 PM
#19
The only thing I’m an automotive purist on is the ICE. I really don’t care how fast the appliances are, the sound of an engine is such a massive part of the driving experience and the development and advancing of an engine is interesting to a mechanically minded person like myself.
I’d imagine many of you feel the same. I mean nobody can deny we bought the ISF because of the engine and that glorious sound!
As far as electric vehicles, it’s the future, just not for me. I’ll hold out as long as I can before .gov makes it financially stupid to own them. Sadly I feel that people are so focused on big oil being the devil, they ignore our dependency on it. Until someone brilliant comes along and finds a way to make it unnecessary it’s not going away.
Rest assured energy companies know this though. Refining is already focusing on jet and clean diesel as the demand will be there likely for as long as I’m around.
I’d imagine many of you feel the same. I mean nobody can deny we bought the ISF because of the engine and that glorious sound!
As far as electric vehicles, it’s the future, just not for me. I’ll hold out as long as I can before .gov makes it financially stupid to own them. Sadly I feel that people are so focused on big oil being the devil, they ignore our dependency on it. Until someone brilliant comes along and finds a way to make it unnecessary it’s not going away.
Rest assured energy companies know this though. Refining is already focusing on jet and clean diesel as the demand will be there likely for as long as I’m around.
11-24-19, 09:02 AM
#20
I'll echo what others have said so far. There is a lot to consider.
In my area, one out of every five cars is a Tesla. I literally see them on every drive. And although I usually have strong hatred for what's trendy, riding in a Model 3 Performance has certainly convinced me that my ISF is the last high performance ICE car I will ever buy. With 0 to 60 times under 3.5 seconds, instant torque, and precise traction control that can't be had with an ICE, I'm OK with giving up the V8 growl. I've had my share of loud and obnoxious cars - some peace and quiet would be welcomed at this point.
With that said, I'm not buying a Tesla. The car to replace my ISF will be a Porsche Taycan, albeit a few years down the road when I can finally afford one.
In my area, one out of every five cars is a Tesla. I literally see them on every drive. And although I usually have strong hatred for what's trendy, riding in a Model 3 Performance has certainly convinced me that my ISF is the last high performance ICE car I will ever buy. With 0 to 60 times under 3.5 seconds, instant torque, and precise traction control that can't be had with an ICE, I'm OK with giving up the V8 growl. I've had my share of loud and obnoxious cars - some peace and quiet would be welcomed at this point.
With that said, I'm not buying a Tesla. The car to replace my ISF will be a Porsche Taycan, albeit a few years down the road when I can finally afford one.
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MileHIFcar (11-24-19)
11-26-19, 11:00 AM
#21
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The only thing I’m an automotive purist on is the ICE. I really don’t care how fast the appliances are, the sound of an engine is such a massive part of the driving experience and the development and advancing of an engine is interesting to a mechanically minded person like myself.
I’d imagine many of you feel the same. I mean nobody can deny we bought the ISF because of the engine and that glorious sound!
As far as electric vehicles, it’s the future, just not for me. I’ll hold out as long as I can before .gov makes it financially stupid to own them. Sadly I feel that people are so focused on big oil being the devil, they ignore our dependency on it. Until someone brilliant comes along and finds a way to make it unnecessary it’s not going away.
Rest assured energy companies know this though. Refining is already focusing on jet and clean diesel as the demand will be there likely for as long as I’m around.
I’d imagine many of you feel the same. I mean nobody can deny we bought the ISF because of the engine and that glorious sound!
As far as electric vehicles, it’s the future, just not for me. I’ll hold out as long as I can before .gov makes it financially stupid to own them. Sadly I feel that people are so focused on big oil being the devil, they ignore our dependency on it. Until someone brilliant comes along and finds a way to make it unnecessary it’s not going away.
Rest assured energy companies know this though. Refining is already focusing on jet and clean diesel as the demand will be there likely for as long as I’m around.
The sound of that v8 cannot be replaced!
11-26-19, 01:14 PM
#22
With the way I drive my ISF, filling her up every 3 days, it has been tempting to get an electric car, granted my daily driver is suppose to be my RX400 hybrid, but the ISF is so much fun to drive, it has kinda been my daily as of late. So electric cars are looking very attractive especially the Teslas, but part of me can't imagine driving a car that has no engine noise.
11-26-19, 07:12 PM
#23
Guys, I have the solution to all your (lack of) engine noise problems with electric cars.
www.EVSoundSystem.com
Just in time for Christmas. Enjoy.
www.EVSoundSystem.com
Just in time for Christmas. Enjoy.
Last edited by WillAP1; 11-26-19 at 07:16 PM.
11-27-19, 06:17 AM
#24
Moderator
Thread Starter
That’s pretty funny.
Our complex is about to knock down car ports and build garages, and for a fee will route enough power to charge electric cars. I decided to go ahead and do the power just in case I end up needing it in the future. My lexuses both have under 50k, and I drive them about 8-9k combined a year. So I won’t need a new car for twenty years... but who knows what the future will bring.
Our complex is about to knock down car ports and build garages, and for a fee will route enough power to charge electric cars. I decided to go ahead and do the power just in case I end up needing it in the future. My lexuses both have under 50k, and I drive them about 8-9k combined a year. So I won’t need a new car for twenty years... but who knows what the future will bring.
11-27-19, 07:29 AM
#25
That’s pretty funny.
Our complex is about to knock down car ports and build garages, and for a fee will route enough power to charge electric cars. I decided to go ahead and do the power just in case I end up needing it in the future. My lexuses both have under 50k, and I drive them about 8-9k combined a year. So I won’t need a new car for twenty years... but who knows what the future will bring.
Our complex is about to knock down car ports and build garages, and for a fee will route enough power to charge electric cars. I decided to go ahead and do the power just in case I end up needing it in the future. My lexuses both have under 50k, and I drive them about 8-9k combined a year. So I won’t need a new car for twenty years... but who knows what the future will bring.
11-27-19, 05:25 PM
#27
Moderator
Thread Starter
What 2040 ban? If they really tax or ban ICE, our cars value will tank so badly there won’t be much point in selling a quarter million mile Lexus. We would more likely just throw them away. I imagine there would be a major tax incentive to switch to electric as well.
12-02-19, 06:39 AM
#28
https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...cars-by-2030-7
Most on the list are too aggressive but a ban on NEW car sale by 2040 seems very real. Things in the states will change soon too when a new president is elected, judging by what the young kids these days are saying.
Most on the list are too aggressive but a ban on NEW car sale by 2040 seems very real. Things in the states will change soon too when a new president is elected, judging by what the young kids these days are saying.
12-02-19, 08:47 AM
#29
Moderator
Thread Starter
https://www.businessinsider.com/coun...cars-by-2030-7
Most on the list are too aggressive but a ban on NEW car sale by 2040 seems very real. Things in the states will change soon too when a new president is elected, judging by what the young kids these days are saying.
Most on the list are too aggressive but a ban on NEW car sale by 2040 seems very real. Things in the states will change soon too when a new president is elected, judging by what the young kids these days are saying.
12-03-19, 12:11 AM
#30
Pit Crew
My dad owns a Tesla Model 3. 310 Miles of range, that can be charged at home overnight. Instant torque with very fast 0-60. It's a very fun car to drive. And with the supercharger network, long trips are definitely doable, unless you're going to/through a very rural area 100+ miles off of any interstate. Look at their map of the supercharger network, it's quite extensive. The 150 kw Superchargers can get you to 80% in about 30 minutes - and on a long trip you'll probably want to stop that long to get a bite to eat and use the bathroom. So as a daily driver, hell, for most long trips, it's a great car. And the technology will only get better. While the future is dark for ICE lovers like us, we still have time to enjoy our V8's.
Only thing is, if you like to drive very fast, the power consumption dramtically increases above 70 MPH. If you like to cruise at 80+, your range will suffer. When I bought my ISF, I drove it across the country, from Orange County, CA to NYC. One day I *averaged* 97 MPH, while cruising from 120-140 MPH for long periods, and even did a couple of top speed runs. I covered 950 miles in all that day. That would simply not be doable in a Tesla. Not only would be doing 800+ miles in a day be a pain, you'd have to keep it at 70, 75 max, if you wanted to go a reasonable distance between supercharging. That's where ICE cars are better. Also generally speaking, I go on a lot of long trips, like to drive very fast, and not worry about fueling. That's where ICE shines. But most people don't drive the way i do.
My ideal 2 car garage would be a Tesla Model X, and a Lexus ISF/GSF/LC500. The Tesla would be my practical, comfortable, and efficient everyday car, while my 2UR GSE lexus would be my GT car for long trips, and my performance machine.
Only thing is, if you like to drive very fast, the power consumption dramtically increases above 70 MPH. If you like to cruise at 80+, your range will suffer. When I bought my ISF, I drove it across the country, from Orange County, CA to NYC. One day I *averaged* 97 MPH, while cruising from 120-140 MPH for long periods, and even did a couple of top speed runs. I covered 950 miles in all that day. That would simply not be doable in a Tesla. Not only would be doing 800+ miles in a day be a pain, you'd have to keep it at 70, 75 max, if you wanted to go a reasonable distance between supercharging. That's where ICE cars are better. Also generally speaking, I go on a lot of long trips, like to drive very fast, and not worry about fueling. That's where ICE shines. But most people don't drive the way i do.
My ideal 2 car garage would be a Tesla Model X, and a Lexus ISF/GSF/LC500. The Tesla would be my practical, comfortable, and efficient everyday car, while my 2UR GSE lexus would be my GT car for long trips, and my performance machine.
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