BootStrap

UX means user experience to the best of my knowledge

McPierson

iTrader: (3)

I mean get a double din car play and you have better user interface than either has.

keep the gs. Save money for better fun. Tons of hours a day in a car sounds Ls400 or GS400.

ISF is fun, but not a touring car unless you’re on beautiful roads.

Jwconeil

Honestly the maintenance on my ISF and IS350 costs the same as every other cheap car I have had, except the ISF takes more oil.

brake pads and rotors and everything else I have done has not been expensive. I even did water pump on the 350. If you do your own maintenance, they are cheap to maintain with some part shopping.

Weapon F

Just curious how long have you owned your ISF? What were your expectations regarding ISF. What type of driving do you do on regular basis. What is your main goal with ISF. How would you classify the roads in the area that you live in poor, good or great. What yr is your ISF. I find it interesting that your responses have contained some conjecture and generalizations. You haven't given any clear cut concise examples regarding your statements. On two instance you were correct about the infotainment system and the earlier ISF suspension but that's were it ends. Let's take a look at those two areas. Yes infotainment is dated it was desiged in 2007. That's to be expected with any car that's was designed 13 years ago. And yes If you own 08,09 or 10 yes they do have stiffer shocks agreed. With car that's over 10yrs old it might be time to replace shocks on car from those yrs. If newer you ISF you too have several options to choose from. Your definitely entitled to your opinion that's something here Clublexus ISF members pride themselves on having honest open forum to discuss issue and experiences to help other members.

I'm just trying to understand your comments. The reason being some of what you stated has not been my experience with 10 years of ownership of my ISF. DD from the suburbs into NYC for nearly eight years winter,summer, spring and fall going from excellent roads where I live to poor roads in the city. To tracking the car the first 4 years I had it. To driving from New York to Charlotte North Carolina three times in 2012 twice in 2013 and twice in 2014 to help my sister out. 640 miles each way, I would take Route 81 most of the way down in my ISF. It was comfortable ride especially once I got out of New Jersey. I know ISF owner that lives in Brooklyn he has a 2010 ISF he drove from Brooklyn New York to Utah last month with set of new Blizzak ws80 winter tires that I recommend it to him. He sent me pics of his car on the drive out, he informed me that the car handle excellent in the snow with the Blizzak Snow Tires was actually passing a few SUVs that had slide off road or even stuck in snow with their all season tires. That it was comfortable relatively uneventful drive there and back. So as far as comfort is concerned I guess it's all relative.

Will ISF drive as smooth and comfy as an old GS400 or LS400 even a newer GS or LS no it won't that's not what it was built for. It's a sports sedan that could be drive straight to race track with stock suspension so having stiffer suspension is to be expected, its about managing your expectations. Now if you have 08,09, or10 ISF they had stiffer suspension if you needed to replace them or just weren't happy with ride quality you could opt for set of aftermarket shocks such as the Bilstein B6 $680 for shock or you could retrofit 2014 or 13 shocks onto ISF they were most refined in 7yrs ISF was made. And if you really want smooth ride and you have available funds you can go with either and Airlift or Accuair suspension setup.

Is the ISF perfect far from it but for a car at its original price point and what it's capable of doing and how well ISF has held up over the years I say they did great job. If you want to mod your F there hasn't been a better time especially recently with Advent of all the power upgrades from FBO, superchargers Tunes. If your not happy with factory suspension there are myriad of new suspensions that are currently available from Bilstein, BC Racing, KW, Ohlins, Greddy,RR racing, Airlift, Accuair suspension FIGs Engineering, RR Racing, body mods Carbon Fiber hoods, spoiler, wing etc. There is something to fit anyone's individual needs no matter what they may be.

Let's take look long term up keep? What are you referring to is it basic wear and tear items such as brakes pads and rotors etc? You can get rotors from PartsGeeks Brembo rotors $100F $90R or Raybestos $120F $100R brake pads can anywhere from $100 for some cheap pads to as high up to $600 for set of brake pads. It all depends on what you looking for cruising around Road & Track track , track only pads, dustless etc. There are pads for everyone's budget and needs. Oil and filters, you can buy mobile one for $35 or less per 5-quart jug at any Walmart and filter are between $7 and $10 for oem filter. Suspension components such as shocks if you need to change your shocks and want to go aftermarket you can start with a set of Bilstein B6 on low end they would run you $680 for a set of four shocks to $1500 for BC coilovers with swiftsptings $2400 for KWv3 to ultra high performance $3800 for Ohlins coilovers Road & Track Edition for track junkies those are just few examples. Ball joints $88 from LEXUSPARTSNOW.COM bushings price depends on whether you're going with OEM bushings or urethane bushings prices will vary but relatively inexpensive. Water pump $162 from LEXUSPARTSNOW.COM and OEM radiator from them is $400 or you could get Koyo all Aluminum radiator for same price or less. I haven't heard of any Motors letting go unless they were abused in some way. There have been less than a handful of transmission issues at least reported on this form and others sites that I'm aware of. Now there is one issue that has come up and that is valley plate leak that has affected a few ISF. It was covered under the warranty just like the old water pump issue most of the valley plate leaks from what I can see have already been resolved since most owners who had it and were still under warranty or had them repaired by now if they were aware of issues. The cost to fix can be anywhere from $600 to $1,000 depending on where you go or if you are unable to wrench yourself it's all labor it just tube of new sealant that you need to do fix Valley Plate leak.

I personally would not recommend anyone purchasing 20 year old car such LS400 or GS400. Why due to all the possible repairs that might be needed even if it's a low-mileage car they would still need basic maintenance. Such as updating bushings and suspension components tires,inspection of the motor checking out the transmission tranny oil etc. There would be just too many unknown variables for average person to deal with unless once again they have the tools available as well as the knowledge to wrench themselves. Combined with the lack of tech just wouldn't be my cup of tea unless you're into stance scene. Where the emphasis is put on looks more so than performance. You made statement that that older gen GS would most likely more reliable than IS 350 or ISF all your doing is making assumption based on what data? It's your believe that GS400 or any older GS model would be more fun to drive than ISF that new one, never heard that one before but once again it's your opinion and you're entitled to it. I guess you've never taken your ISF to an actual real race track a road course or autocross it perhaps been to the drag strip with it. Taking it to a nice small twisty back road on a Sunday morning you should definitely give some of those activities a shot you might find that you really enjoy. Another interesting statement you said infotainment system is dated n ISF but yet I would recommend an old GS. I'm just trying to get a better understanding of why you would make some of these statements.

Now the reason for this novel I just wrote, is too help OP by giving him as much factual information as I possibly can vs opinions. Now opinion can definitely be useful but are very subjective. Its like ride quality or exhaust sound one person might feel the right quality is too stiff while another would feel ride is fine. Its same thing with exhaust one more person might find a particular exhaust to loud where is another person might find it perfect. That's the problem with opinions there's no definite answer there's no wrong or right answer. That's why I asked you a couple of quick questions at the beginning just to kind of get a feel for what what are your expectations were when it came to the ISF. I find managing people's expectations and knowing what they're getting themselves into is best way to find out any underlying issues. Based on your post it just seems that you're not 100% happy with your ISF and that 100% OK, maybe it did meet your requirements just wasn't what you expected it's all good. I do wish you best of luck with your ISF if you have any question feel free to reach out.

McPierson

iTrader: (3)

I basically agree with all that.

I’m more than satisfied with my ISF, but if I had to drive it that much it wouldn’t be a good choice for me.

OP has a good car that I assume has treated him well enough to come back to the brand. keeping a good car and investing in it is a better financial decision then getting a new one. The 2nd gen LS might be the most reliable car Lexus will ever make. The GS is very similar. I assume it’s equivalent. I’ve owned a few Toyota’s from that time and I now own a 05 GX and 08ISF. The long term build quality is lower on the last two. I can’t speak to a newish IS. Being ready to move on is fine too. Buying a 20 year old car is not what I’m suggesting.

maintenance:
shocks motor mounts new interior new radiator new bushings. Do that on an ISF and I would expect equal better reliability to any car on the road. You’ll still have melting trunk buttons, window trim that needs replaced. New dash and doors every 10 years or so... cracked exhaust manifolds and a bad *** car that’s incredibly fun to drive. Count me in the long haul. I do all my own work and I like working on cars.

there are lots of right and wrong answers but the questions are different for everyone.

winterturb

Isf for the win. We have both is and isf in our family The isf is by far much more fun and although it has firm suspension it’s not harsh so commuting is fine. I can drive mine for hours and I have 30 years of chronic constant back pain. The reliability? It’s a non issue.

if you want a comfortable commuter buy a 2011-2013 ls460. They are cheap for what you get. Have one of those too.

CSpecISF

These two cars couldn't be more different.

First off, you're comparing a 98 GS400 with 205k miles to a car which is 10 years newer with under half of that mileage, I wouldn't go so far to say everything will be "brittle" on the F. I'd say drive both and see which one you like more. The IS-F is a car which you can easily drive daily if you're used to vehicles with firmer suspension, but given that you're coming from a GS400, I'd think you'd probably end up being partial to the IS350. That being said, it is an IS350 F-Sport and will come with a somewhat firmer suspension setup as well.

Depending on when specifically that 2017 was put on the road (could have been 2016), you might only have about a year and bit of warranty left on the IS350, which isn't much considering the hit you'll likely take on depreciation. After the warranty is up, you're still on your own as you would've been with the IS-F. You'll have to see if the cost of buying newer and having the security of a warranty is worth it to you vs. how much warranty is left and how much that'll cost you overall.

I personally chose the IS-F. The weather in Ontario is often "lackluster" for a car like this, however I would especially choose the IS-F, if I were in a climate like Florida's. For a 5L V8, the mileage is pretty decent (compared to other smaller-displacement turbo cars I own). With the IS-F, you're talking about a flagship Toyota/Lexus product here, they're robust and have been known to go hundreds of thousands of miles with a very limited list of issues. There are a couple of known problems with both cars that (realistically) are fairly minor, but remember, the only problem-free vehicle is having no vehicle at all.

At the end of the day, it's your choice. It does sound like you're swaying in the way of the IS350 already, so the best advice I can give you is to drive both and draw your conclusions based on how you feel. Realistically, you're not going to go wrong with either of them, so it depends on what fits best in your specific scenario and what's more comfortable for you, since you'll be spending a lot of time in the driver's seat.

dannyk8232

The IS350 will get super boring in about 2 days.

The ISF is never, ever boring.

Jwconeil

Well said. I think about turning my F into a daily driver all the time because I’m bored in my IS350. Stupid salty winters.

Weapon F

This is my take on cars they are ment to been driven. Now if that car is 1 of 100 or 1of 500 that's worth hundreds of thousands or millions then yes it would be garage queen. Taken out just few times year. But that not what ISF is, its holding its value much higher than industry standards. For example the average 10 year old car typically has depreciated to just 10% of its original value that includes Mercedes Audi BMWs hold their value a little bit higher than those two Lexus holding the highest of the three German competitors anywhere between 32 and 42% depending on mileage and condition.

With that being said it will still continue to depreciate all be at a much slower pace. People who are holding out for a big payday like the old muscle cars that were going for big six figures 10 years ago or legendary Supra in my opinion I just dont see that happening in future. ISF never caught the imagination of General Public it doesn't have that iconic status. Only people that really know much about the ISF or car enthusiast and even then they don't know much about car. Also when you factor in driving trends changing with the decline of sports car sales every year from sport Coupes to sport Sedan sales all taking a hit every year as the general population is moving towards SUVs and crossovers. Sports cars become a very niche market.

So I say go out drive your ISF enjoy it while you own it. I daily drove mine for 8 years before I retired winter summer spring and fall and I live in the Northeast in New York State so I know all about salty roads potholes you name it. But that was the reason why I purchased my ISF in the first palace I wanted to be able to enjoy my commute have fun driving my car didn't want a garage queen I already have weekend only summer car didn't want another.

A recommendations if you're going to Daily Drive your F this is what I did to mine ISF. First I had the entire front of car covered in expel clear vinyl the entire Hood front bumper front fenders lower portions of the rear quarter panels. After 10yrs of driving I'm on my second wrap of expel.The car gets paint corrected twice yr. After each paint correction the car is ceramic coated. This ensure that paint is protected from salt dust and or contaminants. You an can do paint correction yourself with just a few tools such as quality variable speed orbital polisher along with the proper polishes and waxes etc or you can find local detailer. Have car undercoat to protect it from road salts. After driving in the snow immediately hose down the car both the exterior and the undercarriage. If you choose to drive it in snow get set of dedicated snow tires such as Blizzak WS80s or WS90s snow tires mount them on set of inexpensive 18" rims and that's it's. Or just use your IS 350 when it's snowing out and roads are in bad shape. By the way I say go out and use your eyes us and enjoy it good luck.

CinFulxgs

I am actually starting to lean back to the RCF.

Weapon F

If you get 2015 RCF it's out of warranty if you get 2016 its almost our warranty then you would need to buy extended warranty. To me you dont really seem to be looking for performance vehicle. The RCF is bad *** looking car with great performance but that doesn't seem to be what you looking for. ISF or RCF I'm not sure you would be happy with either. Just pick up IS350 or CPO 2012 to 2015 LS460.

CinFulxgs

2015 RCF still has a drivetrain warranty...

Weapon F

That is true 72k or 7 yrs so what does that buy you two years at most maybe less, and you would need to find low mileage RCF. It's not drivetrain that's going to cost you, its general maintenance cost. Since it's very rare Lexus cars have motor or trans problem unless they have been abused. And that's something you will never know buying it preowned. General maintenance part are going to cost you same as ISF as they will on RCF. This is what I tell a lot of folks who are looking for luxury sports cars you might be able to afford the car but can you afford the maintenance and upkeep of that particular car. Ive seen many people get themselves into trouble getting car they couldn't afford to maintain car. Example If one rear tire becomes destroyed for whatever reason and you have to replace it you just can't replace one tire you have to replace both, the car will not track right. A set of PS4 for rear over 700.00 plus. You been vacillating back and forth
Between 350 and ISFFnow RCF. Good luck with your search

Jwconeil

Great advice. Thanks. I’m not really worried about the value of it, it is just more the rust. I have the front of the car PPF covered, and I actually get all my winter cars Rust Checked (a rust proofing service where they essentially soak the car in oil. I don’t have the ability to wash them myself in winter, so I just run them through the auto wash with belly spray multiple times a week. I got your PM, and it sounds like my methods are similar to yours (except I use the auto wash and you use a heated garage). Since your car is still completely rust free, I may go ahead and just start enjoying my car daily. Seriously, the IS350 is so boring after driving a FBO ISF.