Pink coolant causes valley plate leak?..
11-15-20, 03:08 AM
#16
As much as I would like to think switching over to Toyota Red Coolant is the solution to the valley plate leaking. What about those ISF’s that been running the pink coolant? And haven’t had this issue? It’s all speculation at this point. Personally, I think Toyota hasn’t figured out cooling issues in general. My 2018 Tacoma with 30k on the clock is already 1/4 low on pink coolant. Definitely brings back a lot of doubt. I made dealership document it, as they said it was normal.
11-15-20, 06:46 AM
#17
Those who have not had this issue is just a matter of time imo. I have a 2011 with 50k and no issues yet but I'm waiting for the day the radiator fails or my valley plate. I plan on going koyo radiator and switching to red when the day comes. I used to work for toyota and have seen way too many pink coolant cars seeping/leaking.
11-15-20, 07:20 AM
#18
2011 ISF here, 90k on odo, water pump/radiator/thermostat all still original, and had to top off the coolant reservoir with maybe 2oz of coolant total the past 50k miles.
Toyota OEM pink coolant.
Car is daily driven hard, sees redline at least 20 times a day.
I check the reservoir every week and for any signs of valley plate leak, and so far, zero signs of coolant ever going to the "low" level.
So not sure if there is a correlation between red vs pink Toyota coolant and the valley plate sealant.
Toyota OEM pink coolant.
Car is daily driven hard, sees redline at least 20 times a day.
I check the reservoir every week and for any signs of valley plate leak, and so far, zero signs of coolant ever going to the "low" level.
So not sure if there is a correlation between red vs pink Toyota coolant and the valley plate sealant.
11-15-20, 10:05 AM
#19
As much as I would like to think switching over to Toyota Red Coolant is the solution to the valley plate leaking. What about those ISF’s that been running the pink coolant? And haven’t had this issue? It’s all speculation at this point. Personally, I think Toyota hasn’t figured out cooling issues in general. My 2018 Tacoma with 30k on the clock is already 1/4 low on pink coolant. Definitely brings back a lot of doubt. I made dealership document it, as they said it was normal.
11-15-20, 01:21 PM
#20
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2011 ISF here, 90k on odo, water pump/radiator/thermostat all still original, and had to top off the coolant reservoir with maybe 2oz of coolant total the past 50k miles.
Toyota OEM pink coolant.
Car is daily driven hard, sees redline at least 20 times a day.
I check the reservoir every week and for any signs of valley plate leak, and so far, zero signs of coolant ever going to the "low" level.
So not sure if there is a correlation between red vs pink Toyota coolant and the valley plate sealant.
Toyota OEM pink coolant.
Car is daily driven hard, sees redline at least 20 times a day.
I check the reservoir every week and for any signs of valley plate leak, and so far, zero signs of coolant ever going to the "low" level.
So not sure if there is a correlation between red vs pink Toyota coolant and the valley plate sealant.
This problem is not IS F specific, there are many Toyota / Lexus with the valley plate that use this same setup and sealant. Clearly all are NOT failing so I can't see the SLLC pink fluid being the root cause.
There are way more LS460 and GX460 in service than F's.
My guess has to be improper install at factory or not enough sealant was used or maybe too much ??
Normal small amount of top off to FULL Line every once in a while should be normal..
The fluid does likely evaporate very tiny bit over time.
My repair was done under extended warranty during the ELF recall so I got lucky..
Also I already replaced my radiator once back in Feb 15' (top seal blew) then the Valley plate reseal back in Feb 16'.
Last summer did the WP and thermostat swap.
I have 63k miles under the new reseal approaching 180k miles on the clock & 5 years from repair..
The objective would be not to have a 2nd valley plate seal failure
I just can't see myself switching back to not pre mixed Toyota Red coolant and Servicing it every 2 years or 30k miles.
Toyota Red vs Pink Coolant – Which is Better?
Remembering my 2001 IS300 days the process wasn't fun. Also if I remember right this system was more prone to sludge and rust from adding in & mixing water.
Joe Z
Last edited by Joe Z; 11-15-20 at 02:07 PM.
11-15-20, 11:28 PM
#21
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Biggest problem with red is so many less than clever folks used plain water, not distilled water, and caused their own issues. The pink stuff isn't prone to killing any sealant, if it were everything Scion, Toyota, and Lexus over the last nearly 20 years would be pissing out coolant. They're not, and plenty of Toyota's engines use 1282B on the water pump, or at least the FSM specifies this sealant.
When I did my valley plate (I drained the block so I didn't have a massive pool of coolant sitting in the engine vee), there was a definite black silicone worm all the way around my valley plate. The rest of my engine used some gray sealant, nothing else has black sealant, but the FSM pretty clearly states using the black stuff on the timing cover, so who know what the factory does compared to what they show in the manual. There did not appear to be any shortage of sealant on the valley plate or the block, and I spent considerable time with a razor blade cleaning off the old sealant.
I suspect more than anything the SLLC avoided issues with the EPA much like the "lifetime fill" ATF in our gearboxes. If the coolant lasts over 100k miles, they don't have to pay for the wastestream, so I'd bet that's what caused the switch.
The red stuff works just fine too. I still run it 80/20 in my Supra (80 percent distilled water, 20 percent red coolant) because it has water pump lubricants and anti-corrosion properties and it prevents the heater core from getting inadvertently frozen by the A/C. 80/20 is a whole lot less octane sensitive than 50/50, AMHIK, got the spreadsheets to prove it...
When I did my valley plate (I drained the block so I didn't have a massive pool of coolant sitting in the engine vee), there was a definite black silicone worm all the way around my valley plate. The rest of my engine used some gray sealant, nothing else has black sealant, but the FSM pretty clearly states using the black stuff on the timing cover, so who know what the factory does compared to what they show in the manual. There did not appear to be any shortage of sealant on the valley plate or the block, and I spent considerable time with a razor blade cleaning off the old sealant.
I suspect more than anything the SLLC avoided issues with the EPA much like the "lifetime fill" ATF in our gearboxes. If the coolant lasts over 100k miles, they don't have to pay for the wastestream, so I'd bet that's what caused the switch.
The red stuff works just fine too. I still run it 80/20 in my Supra (80 percent distilled water, 20 percent red coolant) because it has water pump lubricants and anti-corrosion properties and it prevents the heater core from getting inadvertently frozen by the A/C. 80/20 is a whole lot less octane sensitive than 50/50, AMHIK, got the spreadsheets to prove it...
11-16-20, 07:56 AM
#22
Those who have not had this issue is just a matter of time imo. I have a 2011 with 50k and no issues yet but I'm waiting for the day the radiator fails or my valley plate. I plan on going koyo radiator and switching to red when the day comes. I used to work for toyota and have seen way too many pink coolant cars seeping/leaking.
07-12-23, 12:18 PM
#23
Hate to bump an old thread but I didn't see this mentioned and I think its an important detail. The theory behind Toyota red vs pink coolant most likely originates from the fact that the Toyota pink coolant (super long life) uses sebacic acid to extend the life of the coolant. This chemical is known to be a plasticizer which can have a minimal maybe negligible affect on sealants and rubber seals in the cooling system.
Considering Lexus didn't put much/enough sealant on the valley plate the pink coolant could potentially increase the chances of a valley plate leak. This combined with a lot of anecdotal evidence that cars with the pink coolant tend to have more coolant leaks leads the conclusion that the pink coolant has something to do with it.
Personally I would rather change my coolant more frequently and use a coolant that doesn't contain sebacic acid since the only benefit is the longer maintenance intervals and the potential downside is the earlier onset of seal failure in the water pump and valley plate. I'm not saying this is proven but there is a scientific reasoning behind it and not purely based on anecdotes. I'll be using Zerex Asian Red formula pre-mixed coolant and doing a drain/refill on the radiator with more frequency. The biggest problem is finding a place to take the used coolant.
Considering Lexus didn't put much/enough sealant on the valley plate the pink coolant could potentially increase the chances of a valley plate leak. This combined with a lot of anecdotal evidence that cars with the pink coolant tend to have more coolant leaks leads the conclusion that the pink coolant has something to do with it.
Personally I would rather change my coolant more frequently and use a coolant that doesn't contain sebacic acid since the only benefit is the longer maintenance intervals and the potential downside is the earlier onset of seal failure in the water pump and valley plate. I'm not saying this is proven but there is a scientific reasoning behind it and not purely based on anecdotes. I'll be using Zerex Asian Red formula pre-mixed coolant and doing a drain/refill on the radiator with more frequency. The biggest problem is finding a place to take the used coolant.
Last edited by cyfi66; 07-12-23 at 12:22 PM.
07-12-23, 10:57 PM
#24
Tech Info Resource
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Hate to bump an old thread but I didn't see this mentioned and I think its an important detail. The theory behind Toyota red vs pink coolant most likely originates from the fact that the Toyota pink coolant (super long life) uses sebacic acid to extend the life of the coolant. This chemical is known to be a plasticizer which can have a minimal maybe negligible affect on sealants and rubber seals in the cooling system.
Considering Lexus didn't put much/enough sealant on the valley plate the pink coolant could potentially increase the chances of a valley plate leak. This combined with a lot of anecdotal evidence that cars with the pink coolant tend to have more coolant leaks leads the conclusion that the pink coolant has something to do with it.
Personally I would rather change my coolant more frequently and use a coolant that doesn't contain sebacic acid since the only benefit is the longer maintenance intervals and the potential downside is the earlier onset of seal failure in the water pump and valley plate. I'm not saying this is proven but there is a scientific reasoning behind it and not purely based on anecdotes. I'll be using Zerex Asian Red formula pre-mixed coolant and doing a drain/refill on the radiator with more frequency. The biggest problem is finding a place to take the used coolant.
Considering Lexus didn't put much/enough sealant on the valley plate the pink coolant could potentially increase the chances of a valley plate leak. This combined with a lot of anecdotal evidence that cars with the pink coolant tend to have more coolant leaks leads the conclusion that the pink coolant has something to do with it.
Personally I would rather change my coolant more frequently and use a coolant that doesn't contain sebacic acid since the only benefit is the longer maintenance intervals and the potential downside is the earlier onset of seal failure in the water pump and valley plate. I'm not saying this is proven but there is a scientific reasoning behind it and not purely based on anecdotes. I'll be using Zerex Asian Red formula pre-mixed coolant and doing a drain/refill on the radiator with more frequency. The biggest problem is finding a place to take the used coolant.
07-13-23, 08:31 AM
#25
Where do you see this anecdotal evidence? More anecdotal evidence: My IS F had the coolant pump replaced under warranty for a leak. I have well over 150k miles since then without any coolant pump issues. The wife's GS F suddenly developed a coolant level drop with no evidence it is the coolant pump, so I points the finger at the valley plate. I have not investigated with my borescope, but I am pretty sure it will be showing leaking some small amount under the intake manifold.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/th...estion.154035/
I am a Toyota technician and I have seen an unusually high number of water pump leaks with the Super Long Life Coolant (the pink stuff).
I never believed all the rumors floating around about how the Toyota pink coolant causes leaks until I experienced problems myself.
Toyota and water pump leaks seem to go hand in hand lately. At least from antedotal web reports.
I am not fan of pink coolants...since I can read that Toyotas have WP leak because of them
There's been many reports of the new Toyota Pink causing leaks in water pumps.
I remember reading lots of anecdotal reports on the various forums about pink causing water pump drips/leaks in older Toyotas, and some dealer mechanics even recommending newer Toyotas with pink to be switched back to the older red version as a preventative. Whether or not any of this is true, I have no idea.
I see no reason to ever use pink given it's historical tendency to result in premature water pump leaks.
10-19-23, 06:45 PM
#26
I was employed as a certified Lexus tech from 2008-2011.
During my tenure I witnessed significantly more cooling failures with pink SLLC.
Since we always had plenty on hand, a few of us used it in our own personal (non-Toyota) brand vehicles and subsequently had water pump or coolant leak failures.
Factory valley plate sealant is grey.
You have to also keep in mind ANY/ALL sealant degrades over time & exposure.
FWIW, I'm employed at Stellantis currently and I use Mopar 10 year coolant in my ISF since it was free.🤷
During my tenure I witnessed significantly more cooling failures with pink SLLC.
Since we always had plenty on hand, a few of us used it in our own personal (non-Toyota) brand vehicles and subsequently had water pump or coolant leak failures.
Factory valley plate sealant is grey.
You have to also keep in mind ANY/ALL sealant degrades over time & exposure.
FWIW, I'm employed at Stellantis currently and I use Mopar 10 year coolant in my ISF since it was free.🤷
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lobuxracer (10-21-23)
10-20-23, 10:00 AM
#27
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My factory valley plate had black sealant on it and gray everywhere else (just did the cam chains on mine - pity they were both in fine shape and far from worn out, they were not cheap!). Also, the gray stuff seems to dissolve in oil pretty easily. At least when I was cleaning up my timing cover and block face I was able to remove it with a shop grade paper towel with oil on it pretty easily. I had a whole sheet of 3M red Scotchbrite just in case, but didn't need it. That seemed really weird, but I wasn't complaining at all. I was expecting something more like the black sealant that's a huge PITA to get fully clean.
To me the real question is, did they switch to pink to appease the EPA or was there an actual improvement in the chemistry? I'm 100% confident WS ATF and the "lifetime fill" is a result of EPA regulations, not a result of better living through chemistry. I would not be surprised at all if the pink stuff is the same reasoning. The thing I can say is, my cars are not having any issues (my coolant pump went 173k miles in the IS F and was not leaking at all when I changed it out) related to cooling systems other than the valley plate leak in the IS F. The GS F is showing small signs of a valley plate leak, but I haven't noticed a big enough drop to be working on it yet.
To me the real question is, did they switch to pink to appease the EPA or was there an actual improvement in the chemistry? I'm 100% confident WS ATF and the "lifetime fill" is a result of EPA regulations, not a result of better living through chemistry. I would not be surprised at all if the pink stuff is the same reasoning. The thing I can say is, my cars are not having any issues (my coolant pump went 173k miles in the IS F and was not leaking at all when I changed it out) related to cooling systems other than the valley plate leak in the IS F. The GS F is showing small signs of a valley plate leak, but I haven't noticed a big enough drop to be working on it yet.
10-20-23, 10:29 AM
#28
My factory valley plate had black sealant on it and gray everywhere else (just did the cam chains on mine - pity they were both in fine shape and far from worn out, they were not cheap!). Also, the gray stuff seems to dissolve in oil pretty easily. At least when I was cleaning up my timing cover and block face I was able to remove it with a shop grade paper towel with oil on it pretty easily. I had a whole sheet of 3M red Scotchbrite just in case, but didn't need it. That seemed really weird, but I wasn't complaining at all. I was expecting something more like the black sealant that's a huge PITA to get fully clean.
To me the real question is, did they switch to pink to appease the EPA or was there an actual improvement in the chemistry? I'm 100% confident WS ATF and the "lifetime fill" is a result of EPA regulations, not a result of better living through chemistry. I would not be surprised at all if the pink stuff is the same reasoning. The thing I can say is, my cars are not having any issues (my coolant pump went 173k miles in the IS F and was not leaking at all when I changed it out) related to cooling systems other than the valley plate leak in the IS F. The GS F is showing small signs of a valley plate leak, but I haven't noticed a big enough drop to be working on it yet.
To me the real question is, did they switch to pink to appease the EPA or was there an actual improvement in the chemistry? I'm 100% confident WS ATF and the "lifetime fill" is a result of EPA regulations, not a result of better living through chemistry. I would not be surprised at all if the pink stuff is the same reasoning. The thing I can say is, my cars are not having any issues (my coolant pump went 173k miles in the IS F and was not leaking at all when I changed it out) related to cooling systems other than the valley plate leak in the IS F. The GS F is showing small signs of a valley plate leak, but I haven't noticed a big enough drop to be working on it yet.
Also, yes the factory grey sealant is incredibly easy to clean. Toyota Oil FIPG (black) can be a pain to clean up.
As for suspect valley leaks, buy a cheap boroscope on Amazon and poke it around under the intake. Look for any dried pink coolant. Mainly in the front & back is where it commonly collects.
If I were back at Toyota/Lexus. I wouldn't hesitate to use pink SLLC. Main reason it being premixed.
As my last rant and not to get way off topic, another case in point of efficiency and fluid viscosity is my GM L83 5.3L V8 Sierra. It has the exact same oil clearances as the Corvette LT4 supercharged Z06 engine.
The L83 calls for 0w-20.
The LT4 calls for 0w-40, or 15w-50 for track use.
10-20-23, 10:54 AM
#29
Tech Info Resource
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...As my last rant and not to get way off topic, another case in point of efficiency and fluid viscosity is my GM L83 5.3L V8 Sierra. It has the exact same oil clearances as the Corvette LT4 supercharged Z06 engine.
The L83 calls for 0w-20.
The LT4 calls for 0w-40, or 15w-50 for track use.
The L83 calls for 0w-20.
The LT4 calls for 0w-40, or 15w-50 for track use.
If you look at the difference in cSt between 30 weight and 40 weight (or even 50 weight), both of the heavier oils suck up a LOT of power just circulating, and even if you get the oil to 250F or higher the difference in cSt is only one or two - not worth the power loss at lower temperatures!) I've seen this in dyno testing with heavy weight oils - power loss and higher operating temperatures. I always gravitate to 30 weight oils for this reason.
10-21-23, 12:22 PM
#30
Driver School Candidate
The problem is, nobody knows what the cause of the issue is, Toyota/Lexus included, it shouldn't be happening but it is. The sealant on the VP shouldn't be failing hence why they're using it on cars coming off the production line today, but it is. If the issue is Toyota/Lexus's fault then they should (IMO) offer to fix it on all cars in warranty or not, but if the issue is something else (I.E previous owners topping up the coolant with some they got from Costco or Halfords which has degraded the sealant over time) then the onus is less on them, but then the manual doesn't say never to use off brand coolant so if that's the issue it should have.
*EDIT*
It does actually specify "Toyota Super Long Life Coolant or similar high-quality ethylene glycol-based non-silicate, non-amine, non-nitrite and non-borate coolant with long-life hybrid organic acid technology", so the manual actually warns not to use the red coolant.
Last edited by ubersonic; 10-21-23 at 12:28 PM.