My source at our local dealer that I have made a commercial with was told it is a last hoorah for the IS line, made with parts already developed. We all know that dealers generally don’t know the whole picture, so take it with a grain of salt. I could see that being true though.

Hopefully it isn’t.

 

@natnut I'm sorry sir you are very WRONG..!! An axe ? Negativity ?

Sir sharing the truth and looking at it explains it all. Being honest does not make me negative.

The new 2021 IS line was not picked up for sale in Lexus UK / Europe..

The IS 500 will be exclusive for the USA market only... This is likely the last iteration of this IS and I agree with @Jwconeil ..

This is very likely the best way to send off the V8 / last hurray on the IS..
Short of making another real F car!!
Sales of the RC F and GS F tapered downward quickly, like the IS F.

I've wrenched on more IS, RC F & GS F than you can imagine..

SOO please don't come off like you understand why this good in some small ways and VERY disappointing in many other ways.. I've sat in on several F product planning and owner feedback meetings with Lexus over the years.. Including the Chief Engineer Yaguchi-San himself. This is my subject matter expert opinion.
(he retired a couple years back)

I have been driving the Lexus IS line since July 2000 and I know a thing or two about "Lexus Performance" & what Lexus IS doing..

..and wholeheartedly I do NOT see this as a BOLD move or exciting at all.

Maybe great for new customers they want to win or have current Lexus owners "upgrade" too..

We need continuous improvement. They are delivering short every time in the Performance Dept.

Joe Z




Father of the F brand and now legend!!


Racing the CCS-R @ Pikes Peak

 

See my post below

 

Guys knock off the personal commentary or do not post

 

Sorry you can cite all the credentials you want but I'm sticking with what's plainly evident to me : you're on a wrong tack and way off on your interpretation of what the IS500 F-Sport Performance bodes for the future of Lexus high performance cars.

You and the petrolhead Chief Engineers in Lexus can have the purest car enthusiast intentions but the reality is that if the next Lexus high performance enthusiast car does not turn a profit, future F cars/F-Performance cars will not see the light of day.

Which is why what Lexus is doing with the IS500 F-Sport Performance, which is to maximize the chances that a high performance Lexus is a success for the Lexus bottom line, is so refreshing, creative and ingenious yet grounded in reality and a sober assessment of the lie of the land.

SUVs/CUVs are gobbling up the sales pie and crowding out performance sedans. Governments are increasingly hostile to ICE cars let alone higher performance ICE cars. Therefore, there is very little wiggle room for future performance car projects in Lexus before they are canned. A high performance project like the IS500 F-Sport must be a sales success early on and unambiguously so that future F car projects can be greenlit. So how did Lexus do all it can to ensure the IS500 turns a profit?

1) Reducing R&D sunk costs and retooling costs by using off the shelf parts that are already in existence : the UR V8, the 3IS chassis, the GS350 F-Sport upgraded 2 piece brakes, the Yamaha dampers from the LC convertible
2) The off the shelf parts must be high quality, pretested for years and thus proven to be durable. Lexus thus keeps to its core values and selling points of reliability and low maintenance.
3) By stripping off the cosmetic trappings of F cars and the track only specialized parts like 6 pot Brembos, TVDs and additional costly chassis braces, Lexus can remove parts that would be lost on the average middle class car enthusiasts but which would hugely inflate the selling price of the car if they had been left in.
4) Lexus can THEN pass these savings on to the consumers thus reducing the cost of entry of a high performance V8 to its lowest point in years. The only other time a Lexus V8 was so affordable(taking into account inflation) was when the 2nd Generation GS400 debuted in USA. I suspect Lexus aims to shake up the high performance luxury V8 market the same way the GS400 did 20+ years ago by grossly undercutting all other competitors (easy to do when no other meaningful player offers a powerful V8 in the compact luxury segment).
5) Lexus is starting small and essentially starting back at square one by confining the IS500 to the market where it has the highest probability of succeeding : America, land of the V8 and where petrol is cheapest in the world. If the IS500 takes off in the US, Lexus can then expand its F-Sport Performance line to the rest of the world
6) Once the IS500 has been an established sales success, Lexus can then build off the credibility acquired in the mindshare of the car buying public and THEN proceed to unveil true F cars.

ISF, RCF, GSF and LFA failed because Lexus went from ZERO to a hundred far too quickly for the public to accept. Lexus has to capture the middle ground first (mid range performance cars/V8s like the IS500) before they can even talk about super high performance F cars. If Lexus had done what you Joe -Z wanted : unveil a 550-600 hp ISF yesterday, guess what would have happened? The ISF would cost 80-90K. NO ONE would buy it and the ISF would become an expensive white elephant collecting dust in Lexus showrooms. Journalists would praise the car to high heavens and then it would be discontinued the next year.

The considered, calculated way that Lexus has gone about doing things with the IS500 shows me that this time around, they are serious and very preplanned in wanting F to take off ---by first laying the ground with the IS500.

 

@natnut I respect you're opinion

I just leave you with these Key Person videos that explain why we even have a 2UR-GSE available TODAY



Origins of the V8


Joe Z

 

So here's a little backstory I never really shared here. I was part of the early discussion on IS F before it debuted in Detroit back in 2007, I was involved in the study team meeting with Chief Engineer Yaguchi and a select group of enthusiasts I invited, @Joe Z was one of them. A few years back, I was involved in the study team discussions for what we now know as the IS 500 F SPORT Performance. The first concern of mine was not being labeled an IS F. Also the confusion of what the F and F SPORT branding.

The IS 500 F SPORT Performance compared to the previous IS F, the core elements are there. Compact RWD sedan with a V8, performance wheels/tires/brakes, great handling. The IS 500 F SPORT Performance in my opinion is the IS F successor. The reason I came with that conclusion after numerous meetings with the product planning and marketing teams over the years, this is an effort to continue a true V8 compact sport sedan without braking the bank. If you look at it, most people that have owned IS F have changed out the brake pads and rotors (because they think the OEM Lexus/Brembo replacement parts are too expensive), changed the wheels, the suspension, for some the driver's seat for something more supportive and aggressive. I don't look at this new car as a bad thing. I actually think it's great because it is a clean slate for someone ready to customize it their way, and not have expensive branded parts that will be deemed useless once they change it out.

What the 2022 IS 500 F SPORT Performance doesn't have compared to IS F:

• No Brembo Brakes
• No BBS Wheels
• No F side skirt/vents
• No F badging
• No F front seats (heated only)

What the 2022 IS 500 F SPORT Performance has that the previous IS F doesn't:

• 5-mode Drive Mode Select (Normal, SPORT and SNOW ECT modes for IS F)
• Adaptive Variable Suspension (One way, non adjustable Tokico shocks for IS F)
• Lexus Safety System + 2.5 (Radar Cruise was the only safety option for the IS F)

The IS 500 F SPORT Performance still carries the original Lexus Musts for IS F:

• Must Be Balanced
• Must Be Authentic
• Must Haul ***

As a matter of fact, with the new Lexus Driving Signature, the IS 500 F SPORT Performance will have a better, more controlled and balanced ride than the previous all thanks to AVS and technological advancements with the suspension and shock valving. After driving the IS 350 F SPORT Dynamic Handling Package, I really feel the IS 500 F SPORT Performance will be a good balance of comfort and performance. Think BMW Alpina B3 to an M3. I'm really considering to trade in my 2020 RC F for this.

 

With its limited run and US exclusive market that car is going to be collectors item.

 

Joe,

Really respect your opinion, and have gotten help from you over the years. Quick question. Want to pull the trigger on an ISF (hopefully from a forum member, looking at few potentials). I know ISF has had strong resale value.


With the new IS500 and GSF getting in this 40-55k range, how do you see that affecting the ISF values?

 

Appreciate that..!!

Members are reporting the IS F used market pricing / values are on an uptick

Joe Z

 

I agree with a lot of what you're saying except for one thing....if they made an ISF with 550-600 hp for $80k-$90k, I'd be first in line to buy it. Honestly think it'd sell pretty well.

V.

 

You could and probably are right Joe, and I was able to do a few screen pauses, and it had slightly different side mirrors, which made me think it was a 500. That and it was Manhattan, so I thought it would be a good place to initially market it.

 

Joe, I don't think Nat is disputing why the 2UR-GSE exists. Many here appreciate what you've personally done for the community. It's obvious the IS500 is not what you and I'm sure many others wanted instead of a true F car, maybe that's in the pipeline or this is it, either way, I'm glad Lexus put a V8 back into the IS chassis.

 

This looks like an awesome car... Can't wait to buy one... in 5-10 years once high mileage ones hit the used market for a deep discount.

 

@plex

Yep... For sure never said it was a bad thing!!!

It's just unfortunate that 8 years after the IS F was discountinued and the MY14 IS chassis / 3rd gen was released... We know finally get the V8 shoehorned into the refreshed MY21 IS 350 F SPORT (same chassis)

It's great news for those who want a V8 IS or in the market.

Also remember a well equipped MY21 IS 350 F SPORT RWD w/ DHP package and a few options comes in at $55,400.. (See cars on the lot now)

How much will it cost to add the V8 and new front clip skin ??

Joe Z