Cpfb68

Hey all,

I just had my 11' F serviced at a local Atlanta Lexus Dealership for the valley plate leak issue. After getting the car back, I found on the receipt they used FIPG for Oil Pan (Part Number - 00295-00103) and not the one recommended by most online, Toyota 1282B Seal packing (Part Number 08826-00100). Should I be freaking out and have them redo the work? I had asked my writer via text after I dropped it off if they were going to use the correct sealant and he texted me back "they will the whatever the service manual lists to use". I have no idea what the dealer service manual says. Does anyone know what is the Lexus Service manual material to be used?

Thanks ahead for any help you can provide!

vraa

iTrader: (2)

https://www.clublexus.com/forums/is-...l#post10455405

Try that

lawrence1

the service manual calls for the 1282B sealant, although most dealerships won't use it. Everyone i've talked to uses the FIPG sealant instead. I had my car repaired and had a lengthy conversation about this with my mechanic who has done tons of these V8 valley pan jobs. This guy is an ex Lexus master tech that went out on his own and I trust his expertise. In a nutshell, he told me he'll use 1282B if I want, but he feels more comfortable using the FIPG as he's never had one leak, with some repairs dating back more than 4 years. No one knows whether the 1282B is better in this application or not, and no one knows why these valley pans leak to begin with. Maybe 1282B is the sealant they used at the factory, and maybe it wasn't the best product for this application. Now the service manual is recommending reusing the same sealant that fails. If the job is done and the car is leak free, I wouldn't worry about it. I used the regular FIPG on my car and I'm comfortable with it.

LeX2K

The use case is clearly stated on the tube.

Cpfb68

Thanks for linking me to this post! Im reading through it now.

The Head Tech for the shop had a long conversation with me this afternoon. He has never heard of 1282B in his 20 years at Lexus. He did send me an email after we talked telling me he did go back and look at the F Manual and it did call out the 1282B. He assured me the sealant they used is universal and has similar properties meeting the manual's call out of "or approved equal" for the sealant that was used.

He told me he is going to contact his regional Tech Manager to see if there is tech specs for both sealants to see their differences.

The article you linked has a LOT of info from Lexus Techs calling out Threebond, the company had makes both sealants, and how similar they are.

Thanks again!

Cpfb68

Lawrence1,

thanks for your view. I agree, the job is done, my extended warranty covered all except $250, the dealer is ordering the broken wiring cover and replacing it at their cost and I have my car back. If the universal sealant is designed to hold up as long as the specifically designed selant I'm good. Even if it's a year less, I'm still good. If it's a 4-year difference (6 as opposed to 10 years)....I may want to argue.....but I probably won't. I know it was done right as the tech that did the work knew what he was doing and all looks good. It's a longevity thing now.

They are working with me and I will work with them.

Again, thanks for your point of view!

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

It's funny. When I worked on aircraft in the Air Force, QA would roll up on you and ask what step in the Technical Order you were on. If you couldn't tell them what step you were on, or worse yet, you didn't have your TO open, you'd get written up on the spot, and the entire job would have to start from zero and be reaccomplished. A 20 year Lexus tech saying he's never heard of this sealant is saying he's never opened the book in all that time because this sealant is way more than 20 years old and is used on more than just valley plates. Lots of water pump installs specify this same sealant for the same reason - it was specially developed for Toyota coolant retention. So, what's the point of having the manuals if you just expect to ignore them?

Would I freak out if the dealer tech ignored the manual and used 103 sealant? No. But I would request an extended warranty, maybe 5 years, for the valley plate's seal since they chose to ignore the factory service manual. I'd check it with a borescope at least once a year to see how the seal is working (or not). And if the seal failed in less than 5 years, I'd be all about you need to fix this at no cost to me because you chose a different sealant than the service manual specifies.

The biggest problem I have with it is this: the manual specifies 103 for everything else on the engine, but calls out this sealant for the valley plate. WHY? No one here knows, and Lexus isn't about to say because all those dealership techs who used 103 would now be in a pickle. I'm sure they are many, and I don't fault them except that they were working on the car without referencing the service manual.

If you do this job yourself and choose your favorite Loctite, Fel-Pro, or Permatex sealant, all power to you. You made a choice and you live with your results. If you're working for a dealership and you're not following the service manual, you get what you deserve when things don't go well.

I did mine myself. I used the 1282B. I don't know if it will fail again. I don't know if 103 might have been better (maybe, maybe not, no one here is qualified to make that call, and neither is the ThreeBond sales guy referenced in another thread - I sell technical stuff for a living, but I never tell the customer technical details; I have engineering staff to make those claims and legal would have me hogtied or fired for making any technical claims), or if some Loctite, Fel-Pro, or Permatex sealant would equal 1282B (or even out-perform it) at a tiny fraction of the cost of 1282B. What I do know is, I followed the procedure in the manual and used the sealant the manual called for, so I can AT LEAST expect factory performance, which honestly isn't saying a lot given how many of these have failed. I also don't know why the factory didn't just friction weld these things in place so no seal failure is possible. Maybe it is cost prohibitive and the failures are generally well after warranty so Lexus doesn't care about fixing the problem with a solid engineered solution, and the customer bears the cost of failure. I know for sure TIG welding it in place would risk warping the block, so I have no interest in trying that, but I have wondered if a sealant like JB Weld might be a truly permanent fix.

So, get a promise from Lexus if it fails in less than 5 years, they'll fix it. That's what I'd ask for as compensation.

93MSB

iTrader: (8)

and FWIW, FIPG is an acronym "Form In Place Gasket", it is a generic term and not a specific formula.

Cpfb68

I agree with all you said above and in the other really long post on this topic. A manual is made to explain how the engineers designed the repair and the materials needed to make it correct. If the Toyota/Lexus engineers wanted to change a specific material to be replaced with a better one, wouldn’t they put out a tech memo stating “on page ## of manual XX change material YY to material ZZ”

the Tech in charge of the entire shop spoke with me and incorrectly said the manual stated to use 103B or approved equal. In an email to me about three hours later, he corrected himself stating the manual did state To use 1282B (which he had never heard of nor ever used in his 20 years as a Toyota/Lexus Tech) OR approved equal which is the 103B.

He promised to look into obtaining tech info on the 1282B material and compare it to the 103B and send me what he finds. We’ll see what happens.

For now, it works and I have a lot of texts and emails covering me if the repair fails in a short (1 year +) time frame.

McPierson

iTrader: (3)

It’s just too bad that it’s such a crap shoot at the dealership and indy shops are even worse.

for example: the wire protection is almost guaranteed to disintegrate. It should be ordered at the time service is scheduled. Does that happen? I don’t know the stats but I would guess in less than 1 in 10 times.

The only way to do it right is to do it yourself, but that means you think you have a better shot at completing this right your very first time than a dealership that would have hopefully done more than one.

lawrence1

UPDATE: Added about 1k miles to the car since the repair and so far so good on the Toyota 103 FIPG sealant. Coolant level hasn't moved at all.

I agree with your post and understand the service manual requirements for the valley pan repair. Conversely, the only seal related coolant leak occurring regularly on these later Lexus V8 engines is the valley pan, which coincidentally happens to be the only place where 1282B is used. Interestingly enough, most people report that the factory sealant application appeared appropriate (no gaps in the bead, etc.) Not saying that the sealant is of poor quality, or that it isn't suitable for the application, but it makes me wonder if that is more than a remote possibility.

Will keep an eye on this and report back periodically to see if any issues come up later on.

Mantion

In general I ignore the directions and always seek 3rd party advice. I never trust the guy doing the work, selling the product or claiming to be an expert. This goes for every aspect of my life including doctors. If I disagree with a Dr I walk out find a different doctor. There are times I don't know and need a Dr experience, but when I know I know and I have ALWAYS been right once I found a Dr that listened. Having worked as a mechanic I can honestly say NEVER trust the dealer. Some dealer mechanics are great but most are worse than a guy working out of his garage. Sure the dealer MAY stand by their work, but they also might mess up something else and try to cover it up.

lobuxracer

iTrader: (2)

I'm really glad you don't work on commercial aircraft. Men have died when aircraft mechanics ignored technical data.

Ignoring the factory manuals isn't clever at all. They're not the most expeditious method, but they're complete and provide a solid starting point along with warnings about important things you should not ever ignore and include tightening specs for all the important fasteners you'll be removing.