C&D Numbers
07-07-17, 02:39 PM
#31
JD Power is a better gauge, especially for what we are looking at. Navigating older Porsches can be a minefield if you don't know what you are doing. The DFI 911s from 997.2 and up are very reliable vehicles.
I used 911 turbos (89, 91, 94, 97, 98, 01, 03, 04, 08, 12) as daily drivers, all purchased new from 1989 through March 2015 when I purchased an RCF for a bigger back seat due to a 3 year-old. Granted the Mezger turbos are more reliable than their NA counter parts, my Porsches were rock solid, most never even had a warranty issue and I put up to 80k miles on them.
My 2015 RCF had MORE warranty issues than any of my 2 Porsche turbos combined and my current 2017 M3 ZCP, approaching 11k miles, has proved more reliable than my RCF during its first 10,000 miles (RCF 3 issues, M3 0).
http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-vds
I used 911 turbos (89, 91, 94, 97, 98, 01, 03, 04, 08, 12) as daily drivers, all purchased new from 1989 through March 2015 when I purchased an RCF for a bigger back seat due to a 3 year-old. Granted the Mezger turbos are more reliable than their NA counter parts, my Porsches were rock solid, most never even had a warranty issue and I put up to 80k miles on them.
My 2015 RCF had MORE warranty issues than any of my 2 Porsche turbos combined and my current 2017 M3 ZCP, approaching 11k miles, has proved more reliable than my RCF during its first 10,000 miles (RCF 3 issues, M3 0).
http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...lity-study-vds
Sorry to hear about your woes with the RC-F, sounds like you got a rare lemon. I don't know any other Lexus owners that have had that kind of experience in any model. More like 1 issue per 100k miles.
One more comment on the resale value of the RC-F; it seems to fit the pattern of most high performance / premium versions of normal cars. Once on the used market, most people are just looking for "X" and the fact that your car has a bigger motor or nicer wheels gets kind of lost. Options and packages depreciate much faster than the base car. Had this discussion with my brother who is waiting for the RS3 to arrive. I told him he'll be paying $60K+ for what to most other people is the same A3 that his admin assistant drives, so don't expect much attention or good resale. No he's not planning to track it, just drive it to work and the beach. He didn't even like the sport seats that came with the S3 he tested, so I'm scratching my head wondering how he'll like that they come standard in the RS3. But he's the kind of guy that has to have cars "fully loaded", which means the biggest engine it comes with :-)
07-07-17, 03:23 PM
#32
Lexus Test Driver
You might be right about folks buying $100K+ cars only caring about the first 3 years as they trade up, but I tend to keep cars longer so CR is more useful to me. But thanks for the JD Power link showing that Porsches are indeed solid the first 3 years.
Sorry to hear about your woes with the RC-F, sounds like you got a rare lemon. I don't know any other Lexus owners that have had that kind of experience in any model. More like 1 issue per 100k miles.
One more comment on the resale value of the RC-F; it seems to fit the pattern of most high performance / premium versions of normal cars. Once on the used market, most people are just looking for "X" and the fact that your car has a bigger motor or nicer wheels gets kind of lost. Options and packages depreciate much faster than the base car. Had this discussion with my brother who is waiting for the RS3 to arrive. I told him he'll be paying $60K+ for what to most other people is the same A3 that his admin assistant drives, so don't expect much attention or good resale. No he's not planning to track it, just drive it to work and the beach. He didn't even like the sport seats that came with the S3 he tested, so I'm scratching my head wondering how he'll like that they come standard in the RS3. But he's the kind of guy that has to have cars "fully loaded", which means the biggest engine it comes with :-)
Sorry to hear about your woes with the RC-F, sounds like you got a rare lemon. I don't know any other Lexus owners that have had that kind of experience in any model. More like 1 issue per 100k miles.
One more comment on the resale value of the RC-F; it seems to fit the pattern of most high performance / premium versions of normal cars. Once on the used market, most people are just looking for "X" and the fact that your car has a bigger motor or nicer wheels gets kind of lost. Options and packages depreciate much faster than the base car. Had this discussion with my brother who is waiting for the RS3 to arrive. I told him he'll be paying $60K+ for what to most other people is the same A3 that his admin assistant drives, so don't expect much attention or good resale. No he's not planning to track it, just drive it to work and the beach. He didn't even like the sport seats that came with the S3 he tested, so I'm scratching my head wondering how he'll like that they come standard in the RS3. But he's the kind of guy that has to have cars "fully loaded", which means the biggest engine it comes with :-)
There were multiple guys on the RCF forum, which did not have that many owners to begin with, that lemoned their cars or initiated lemon law claims against Lexus over their RCF. Two of the issues (spoiler and fuel pump) I had almost everyone had and their were other complaints about interior items such as seats prematurely ripping or showing major wear (mine did this as well). My navigation system was also constantly resetting itself or going blank.
Prices for 997.2s have actually appreciated, particularly for the C4S and GTS models, over the last year.
07-07-17, 04:59 PM
#33
Can we rename this the "Humble Brag" thread? 
I have no hot wife buying me sports cars, an apparently "meager" income, heck I don't even have sexy pics of my LC to post in my signature. It's all entertaining for me though, as the internet should be.
That being said, I would choose the LC 500 over an equivalently priced Porsche any day of the week. Porsche's are beautiful, timeless and I confess I want one. However, little people like me just can't justify dropping $150K+ on a car. Yes, it sounds ludicrous coming from an LC driver. But here's what swayed me, the LC 500 is a poor-man's sports car that looks like a rich-man's one. That's not the only reason I bought it but it definitely fulfills that need.
Otherwise I think American cars are winning the sub $100K category, hands down. We can throw facts and figures back and forth, but between the Corvette Z06, Camero ZL1, Mustang GT 350, and the Challenger thingy that succeeds the Hellcat, anybody with a good work ethic and patience can light up the street. This is important, because the American lineup changed the conversation to one of desire and not just raw numbers. I don't think anybody buying a car with just 2 doors is ignoring emotional appeal. Sure, one could get some super-duty truck-beast with "better performance" than a Toyota 86, but that's not what 86 buyers are looking for. There's a story behind every car. The LC 500's story is that of an LFA for the mere mortal, with panty-dropping good looks and a glorious engine soundtrack.
I believe the skeptics want the LC 500 to be the LFA. It's out there, waiting for you, by all means buy one and tell me about it.
I have no hot wife buying me sports cars, an apparently "meager" income, heck I don't even have sexy pics of my LC to post in my signature. It's all entertaining for me though, as the internet should be.
That being said, I would choose the LC 500 over an equivalently priced Porsche any day of the week. Porsche's are beautiful, timeless and I confess I want one. However, little people like me just can't justify dropping $150K+ on a car. Yes, it sounds ludicrous coming from an LC driver. But here's what swayed me, the LC 500 is a poor-man's sports car that looks like a rich-man's one. That's not the only reason I bought it but it definitely fulfills that need.
Otherwise I think American cars are winning the sub $100K category, hands down. We can throw facts and figures back and forth, but between the Corvette Z06, Camero ZL1, Mustang GT 350, and the Challenger thingy that succeeds the Hellcat, anybody with a good work ethic and patience can light up the street. This is important, because the American lineup changed the conversation to one of desire and not just raw numbers. I don't think anybody buying a car with just 2 doors is ignoring emotional appeal. Sure, one could get some super-duty truck-beast with "better performance" than a Toyota 86, but that's not what 86 buyers are looking for. There's a story behind every car. The LC 500's story is that of an LFA for the mere mortal, with panty-dropping good looks and a glorious engine soundtrack.
I believe the skeptics want the LC 500 to be the LFA. It's out there, waiting for you, by all means buy one and tell me about it.
07-07-17, 05:27 PM
#34
Lexus Test Driver
Can we rename this the "Humble Brag" thread?
I have no hot wife buying me sports cars, an apparently "meager" income, heck I don't even have sexy pics of my LC to post in my signature. It's all entertaining for me though, as the internet should be.
That being said, I would choose the LC 500 over an equivalently priced Porsche any day of the week. Porsche's are beautiful, timeless and I confess I want one. However, little people like me just can't justify dropping $150K+ on a car. Yes, it sounds ludicrous coming from an LC driver. But here's what swayed me, the LC 500 is a poor-man's sports car that looks like a rich-man's one. That's not the only reason I bought it but it definitely fulfills that need.
Otherwise I think American cars are winning the sub $100K category, hands down. We can throw facts and figures back and forth, but between the Corvette Z06, Camero ZL1, Mustang GT 350, and the Challenger thingy that succeeds the Hellcat, anybody with a good work ethic and patience can light up the street. This is important, because the American lineup changed the conversation to one of desire and not just raw numbers. I don't think anybody buying a car with just 2 doors is ignoring emotional appeal. Sure, one could get some super-duty truck-beast with "better performance" than a Toyota 86, but that's not what 86 buyers are looking for. There's a story behind every car. The LC 500's story is that of an LFA for the mere mortal, with panty-dropping good looks and a glorious engine soundtrack.
I believe the skeptics want the LC 500 to be the LFA. It's out there, waiting for you, by all means buy one and tell me about it.
I have no hot wife buying me sports cars, an apparently "meager" income, heck I don't even have sexy pics of my LC to post in my signature. It's all entertaining for me though, as the internet should be.
That being said, I would choose the LC 500 over an equivalently priced Porsche any day of the week. Porsche's are beautiful, timeless and I confess I want one. However, little people like me just can't justify dropping $150K+ on a car. Yes, it sounds ludicrous coming from an LC driver. But here's what swayed me, the LC 500 is a poor-man's sports car that looks like a rich-man's one. That's not the only reason I bought it but it definitely fulfills that need.
Otherwise I think American cars are winning the sub $100K category, hands down. We can throw facts and figures back and forth, but between the Corvette Z06, Camero ZL1, Mustang GT 350, and the Challenger thingy that succeeds the Hellcat, anybody with a good work ethic and patience can light up the street. This is important, because the American lineup changed the conversation to one of desire and not just raw numbers. I don't think anybody buying a car with just 2 doors is ignoring emotional appeal. Sure, one could get some super-duty truck-beast with "better performance" than a Toyota 86, but that's not what 86 buyers are looking for. There's a story behind every car. The LC 500's story is that of an LFA for the mere mortal, with panty-dropping good looks and a glorious engine soundtrack.
I believe the skeptics want the LC 500 to be the LFA. It's out there, waiting for you, by all means buy one and tell me about it.
Look, I came to this thread to bash Lexus for its engine choice in a $100k car. I am not necessarily bashing the car which I otherwise thought was a fresh design and look. I only brought up the 911 because, other than Lexus loyal fan base, 9 times out 10 someone looking for a sports coupe in the $100k price range will go 911 over LC due to Lexus using an outdated power plant with a weak torque curve. The LC deserved better and I would have perhaps gone that route with a better power plant.
Didn't mean to ruffle feathers, just venting about engine. Enjoy your beautiful cars . . . Just don't race anything German, including fancy SUVs, for titles.
07-07-17, 07:01 PM
#35
I had heard that the 650hp version would be about the same price as a Porsche turbo from good sources (wife worked for Lexus in 2015). You can look back through my old posts on here from 2015 discussing the same and saying I would spend up to $150k for an LC (I think it was called LC-LF back then) with forced induction power in the range of 650, but that I would go back to Porsche turbos as my daily driver if the LC-LF came in above $150k.
07-07-17, 08:01 PM
#36
Liquid Bra Champion
You can get a nice base 911 for less than $100k out the door.
Look, I came to this thread to bash Lexus for its engine choice in a $100k car. I am not necessarily bashing the car which I otherwise thought was a fresh design and look. I only brought up the 911 because, other than Lexus loyal fan base, 9 times out 10 someone looking for a sports coupe in the $100k price range will go 911 over LC due to Lexus using an outdated power plant with a weak torque curve. The LC deserved better and I would have perhaps gone that route with a better power plant.
Didn't mean to ruffle feathers, just venting about engine. Enjoy your beautiful cars . . . Just don't race anything German, including fancy SUVs, for titles.
Look, I came to this thread to bash Lexus for its engine choice in a $100k car. I am not necessarily bashing the car which I otherwise thought was a fresh design and look. I only brought up the 911 because, other than Lexus loyal fan base, 9 times out 10 someone looking for a sports coupe in the $100k price range will go 911 over LC due to Lexus using an outdated power plant with a weak torque curve. The LC deserved better and I would have perhaps gone that route with a better power plant.
Didn't mean to ruffle feathers, just venting about engine. Enjoy your beautiful cars . . . Just don't race anything German, including fancy SUVs, for titles.
07-07-17, 08:01 PM
#37
Lexus Test Driver
I never said anything about 650 hp version being $92k. Two years ago when that was the plan for the LC-LF, the price was slated to be "comparable to the 911 turbo." I was told by several Lexus insiders (Wife being one) that the LC-LF would be a twin turbo V8 producing 650hp and costs about the same as a Porsche turbo. Don't know if Lexus detuned the platform to keep costs down based on RCF's failure to penetrate the performance market or if the twin turbo version will show up later. Wife left Lexus in early 2016 to go to Rolls Royce and never heard anything else about it until they announced the LC 500. I posted about this back in early to mid 2015.
Last edited by DougHII; 07-07-17 at 08:17 PM.
07-07-17, 08:07 PM
#38
Lexus Test Driver
Who the f*** is going to race their LC?? If you they bought an LC for racing you're they're stupid Most LC owners also have a track weapon in their garage as well. No one is going to cross shop an LC with a 911, completely different cars and purposes. People that want a mid-level track car, they'll get a 911. Otherwise they'l go for a full blown supercar.
07-08-17, 03:54 PM
#39
Lol, I said that about my RCF, but the only reason they can be considered exclusive is because no one wanted them, the 2015s sat on lots and Lexus cut production so dealers did not get continue to get stuck with them. Some dealers were even running new RCFs through auction just to get rid of them.
There are a lot of 911s because they are that good and the pinnacle of a borderline super car that is reliable and can be driven daily. They are seen because people actually drive them frequently and they still stand out. Drive one back-to-back with an LC or RC F to make you own decision.
Funny about the valet stand . . . a NEW 911 will always garner more valet respect than any Lexus (except LFA) if that is what is important to you. My wife has a 2010 997.2 cabriolet. I drove it the other night to a large client function at a high-end restaurant so as not to be too flashy and guess where it was parked . . . right in front of the front door. I ended up walking down the street and waiting a bit until clients cleared out before getting it,
Wifey also has Gallardo spyder she bought herself before we met and I swear the male valets gush over my 2017 Yas Marina Blue M3 more than her spyder. Blows me away how much attention that M3 gets. If you want attention, get a Yas Marina Blue F8X. Even women constantly compliment the car and color even more so than the DB11.
There are a lot of 911s because they are that good and the pinnacle of a borderline super car that is reliable and can be driven daily. They are seen because people actually drive them frequently and they still stand out. Drive one back-to-back with an LC or RC F to make you own decision.
Funny about the valet stand . . . a NEW 911 will always garner more valet respect than any Lexus (except LFA) if that is what is important to you. My wife has a 2010 997.2 cabriolet. I drove it the other night to a large client function at a high-end restaurant so as not to be too flashy and guess where it was parked . . . right in front of the front door. I ended up walking down the street and waiting a bit until clients cleared out before getting it,
Wifey also has Gallardo spyder she bought herself before we met and I swear the male valets gush over my 2017 Yas Marina Blue M3 more than her spyder. Blows me away how much attention that M3 gets. If you want attention, get a Yas Marina Blue F8X. Even women constantly compliment the car and color even more so than the DB11.
i still would choose a 3 series over an IS anyday
07-08-17, 04:13 PM
#40
Who the f*** is going to race their LC?? If you they bought an LC for racing you're they're stupid Most LC owners also have a track car in their garage as well. No one is going to cross shop an LC with a Beetle 911, completely different cars and purposes. People that want a mid/low-level track car, they'll get a 911. Otherwise they'l go for a real supercar.
In my case I just rent track cars, as we have quite a choice down here.
Lol, you are a wound up guy. Too daft to catch that the racing SUVs for titles was a joke??? At least one on here said he was cross shopping both and your probably right . . . In its present state very few if any will consider or purchase the LC, but it would have been cross shopped with a 911 if had numbers better than a performance SUV.
As well, we're not disagreeing with you. I've been eyeballing Porsches and building them on their website for years. Your're right, for $90K and change you can drive off in a 911 that's better equipped than an LC 500. The LC 500 is just one of those cars that captured an audience. I sat on my hands when I was finally in a position to get a Porsche. The LC 500 got me into the dealership.
***EDIT***
Just wanted to share my review for the LC 500 that I did on Edmunds, about 10 days ago. I pretty much share your opinion, as far as the car's shortcomings. The car is desirable in its own right, it really does transcend the numbers.
Last edited by wadeb; 07-08-17 at 04:27 PM.
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Ahhadanny (07-08-17)
07-08-17, 05:03 PM
#41
Exactly.
In my case I just rent track cars, as we have quite a choice down here.
Mr. DougHII, I don't think any of us are genuinely wound up. It's Car forum shop talk. The polite people are all over in the duck-face pinterest forum, talking about The View.
As well, we're not disagreeing with you. I've been eyeballing Porsches and building them on their website for years. Your're right, for $90K and change you can drive off in a 911 that's better equipped than an LC 500. The LC 500 is just one of those cars that captured an audience. I sat on my hands when I was finally in a position to get a Porsche. The LC 500 got me into the dealership.
***EDIT***
Just wanted to share my review for the LC 500 that I did on Edmunds, about 10 days ago. I pretty much share your opinion, as far as the car's shortcomings. The car is desirable in its own right, it really does transcend the numbers.
In my case I just rent track cars, as we have quite a choice down here.
Mr. DougHII, I don't think any of us are genuinely wound up. It's Car forum shop talk. The polite people are all over in the duck-face pinterest forum, talking about The View.
As well, we're not disagreeing with you. I've been eyeballing Porsches and building them on their website for years. Your're right, for $90K and change you can drive off in a 911 that's better equipped than an LC 500. The LC 500 is just one of those cars that captured an audience. I sat on my hands when I was finally in a position to get a Porsche. The LC 500 got me into the dealership.
***EDIT***
Just wanted to share my review for the LC 500 that I did on Edmunds, about 10 days ago. I pretty much share your opinion, as far as the car's shortcomings. The car is desirable in its own right, it really does transcend the numbers.
07-08-17, 06:03 PM
#42
Exactly.
In my case I just rent track cars, as we have quite a choice down here.
Mr. DougHII, I don't think any of us are genuinely wound up. It's Car forum shop talk. The polite people are all over in the duck-face pinterest forum, talking about The View.
As well, we're not disagreeing with you. I've been eyeballing Porsches and building them on their website for years. Your're right, for $90K and change you can drive off in a 911 that's better equipped than an LC 500. The LC 500 is just one of those cars that captured an audience. I sat on my hands when I was finally in a position to get a Porsche. The LC 500 got me into the dealership.
***EDIT***
Just wanted to share my review for the LC 500 that I did on Edmunds, about 10 days ago. I pretty much share your opinion, as far as the car's shortcomings. The car is desirable in its own right, it really does transcend the numbers.
In my case I just rent track cars, as we have quite a choice down here.
Mr. DougHII, I don't think any of us are genuinely wound up. It's Car forum shop talk. The polite people are all over in the duck-face pinterest forum, talking about The View.
As well, we're not disagreeing with you. I've been eyeballing Porsches and building them on their website for years. Your're right, for $90K and change you can drive off in a 911 that's better equipped than an LC 500. The LC 500 is just one of those cars that captured an audience. I sat on my hands when I was finally in a position to get a Porsche. The LC 500 got me into the dealership.
***EDIT***
Just wanted to share my review for the LC 500 that I did on Edmunds, about 10 days ago. I pretty much share your opinion, as far as the car's shortcomings. The car is desirable in its own right, it really does transcend the numbers.
07-09-17, 07:29 PM
#44
Lexus Test Driver
Reading the rest of this thread, I'll just say I'm surprised that anyone would cross-shop a 911 and an LC. Totally different cars in my mind.
07-10-17, 05:59 AM
#45
I doubt anyone is legitimately cross-shopping the LC and the 911. Doug likes to pit the 911 against both the LC and the RC, but I don't know anyone that debates between those cars. I like Porsche, can afford one, but bought the RC-F. And I'll very likely buy the LC-F when it comes out. I have friends that like both Lexus RC/LC and Porsche, and guess what? They own both. In other words, they're not choosing between the two. In fact, the only "debate" I've ever seen is when a longtime Porsche owner checked out the LC at my friend's Lexus dealership, he traded in his nearly new 911 right there on the spot.