jbuffett

Hi! I've been considering the LC500 Convertible (our trade-in), it's the perfect GT car for the type of driving my wife and I want to do. Been doing a ton of research, sat in one at the dealer (they wouldn't let us test drive it). Loved everything about it.

I've been watching every driving impressions / review I can find, so when I got to the end of Matt Farah / Smoking Tire's review and saw the overheating issue he had just from road driving:


I was a bit surprised. Hadn't seen anything about trans overheating issues here (searched), the only other place I could find a mention of it was here:

https://lexusenthusiast.com/2017/09/...lightning-lap/

And the posts by "PeterF" about his track-day issues. I won't be taking mine to the track, but Matt Farah having these issues after ~10 minutes of canyon driving are a concern.

1. Has anybody else seen or heard of these issues anywhere else?
2. Does Lexus sell enough LC500's to fix the issue? And if (when) they do, will they make a big announcement about it?

I'd rather not buy a first-year convertible just to hear that in a year or two they fixed the trans cooling issues. I'm also not in a big rush as I'm hopeful that Acura will targa-top the new NSX, which would be another vehicle I'd consider.

EDIT / UPDATE, Lexus Performance Driving School experience at COTA below:

A quick update since I've now also attended a Lexus Performance Driving School event, at Circuit of The Americas (the US Formula 1 track) in Austin. If you've never done one, absolutely go do one. We did some quick back-of-the-napkin math and it's hard to see how Lexus isn't losing money on these events (i.e. marketing expense). We did 11 fast laps around COTA in LC500's, two autocross segments of 3 laps each in the new IS500 then about 10-15 minutes of skidpad time each in an RC-F. The per-driver cost isn't trivial, but for comparable experiences at the same venue for how much you get to do with breakfast/lunch included it's a bargain.

In the Q&A session with Scott Pruett I asked about the LC's cooling, he acknowledged that it was a GT car rather than a track car, and that it needed more cooling to be a track car. For the main track we would do 3-lap segments, there were 4 groups of 3 participants with an instructor in a 4th car in the lead. The instructors all drove RC-F's, all the "hot laps" where participants could ride with instructors at the end of the day were done in RC-F's. The RC-F has upgraded trans cooling over the LC.

The day started off cool in the 30's, and got into the high 50's or low. The pavement warmed notably from the sun over the day. My two friends and I were the "fast group" of our 12, we passed other groups twice and our instructor really let us push the cars. The fastest speeds we typically saw on a good lap were up to about 140. They recommended against manual mode, they also recommended Sport over Sport S+. I ran the entire day in Sport and never experienced a high trans temp warning. My two friends ran in Sport S+ for one of their runs and both saw a high trans temp warning at the end of their runs. We were driving in a group so pushing the cars largely the same on those runs.

I expect that a hotter day would have caused more issues, however I also never expect to run my own car this hard. So to confirm the general consensus reached earlier, "probably not a problem for how most of us will drive these cars". I'd still prefer more trans cooling for the car -- cooler average temps long-term means less issues -- but at this point I'd say it's not necessary unless/until I start experiencing these issues myself on hot days.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

I live in Arizona - Can't get much hotter than that I have had no issues with over heating As far as driving, the dynamics are pretty much the same with the coupe as the convertible.

Lou

jbuffett

What's the most / hardest you've ever pushed the car? I'm not concerned about it for daily driving with the occasional quick launch, but I am concerned that a 10-12 minute stretch of canyon driving (from the Matt Farah video above) caused it to throw a warning.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

^^^^As stated I'm in Arizona. I bought my LC from Lexus of Lincoln in Nebraska. A friend and I drove it home (Late June, at night) took us 20½ hours. Last year I celebrated Thanksgiving with family in Las Vegas. I tend to be an aggressive driver and have driven it in the mountains.

Lou

DRGibbons

I attended the Lexus Performance Driving School (Weathertech Raceway Laguna Seca - January 25, 2019) where we drove GSF, RCF & LC's for the day. We drove the LC's on the track at what I would call an 8/10ths pace (under 2 minute lap times) for 5 laps stints. Quite aggressive. Had a fabulous time. It was a perfect and slightly cool day. Lexus had brought about 15 LC's to use on the track. All were 2018 models.

During the course of the day a couple of the LC's (including the one I was driving) illuminated their transmission temperature warning light toward the end of the hot laps. We also noted that oil temperatures were getting quite high as well. When I asked the Lexus folks there about it they commented that they had notified Lexus and that they did not have an explanation other than we were repeatedly pushing the LC's hard with little time to cool off between track stints.

In my opinion I tend to agree with the PeterF comments to the C+D Lightening Lap. I believe, the LC500 is not designed for continuous track driving and if pushed in that fashion it will tend to have oil and transmission temperature issues. It's not a race car, especially for long endurance runs at 8/10ths and above. It was essentially confirmed by the Lexus folks comments at Laguna Seca saying the LC's needed some time to 'cool off' between track stints.

That being said, I LOVE MY LC. My LC does everything I want in a fast, luxurious GT car and never fails to get envious looks/stares from others both due to the styling and the lovely sounds the V8 makes. I didn't purchase it to race. I do drive it quite aggressively on canyon/mountain roads but with all due respect to Lou's comments above, these public road 'aggressive' drives do not come close to 8/10ths and above track runs for multiple laps. My LC has never had the transmission temperature warning light illuminate.

I'll be at the F-Day event this weekend (December 5) in Maricopa, AZ where I will be driving my LC on the track for the first time. I'm sure I won't beat it as hard as I did the one I drove at Laguna Seca but I intend to push it a bit. I'll let you all know how it goes with the fluid temperatures.

jbuffet - Buy the LC!! You will love it.

winterturb

Also the actual video was 10 minutes with all the editing. He was at 4000 feet when the temp rose and light came on so he was in for a long hard and fast climb, not just 10 minutes

op I think you are overthinking this one and my bet is you would never see that light come on during your time of ownership. Don’t miss out on a great car by a great car maker.

jbuffett

Thanks for confirming. Did the GS-F / RC-F have any similar trans temp issues? If not, I'd suspect that they're equipped with a transmission cooler that isn't standard to the non-F cars.

I don't intend to track the car, but I do live in Colorado and besides canyon roads we do have significant elevation changes. Not too different than the road Farah was driving on in the video, and probably at higher elevations.

It's great to know that you've never experienced the issue in off-track use, thanks I'm less concerned now. Not completely satisfied, but less concerned.

At 14:08 he says "but it turns out that in 10 minutes of canyon driving", I was going off of that. Not the video length.

My issue is whether or not this is a design problem with the vehicle, I live at ~6000 feet (west Denver) and can be to 11-12K elevation in less than an hour. I've owned many Toyota / Lexus products, and the mountains of Colorado do strain their transmission cooling capabilities unless they are factory equipped (or specifically modified) with a transmission cooler. I suspect that's the case here as well.

For cars of this type, at this price point, this just isn't a problem I'd expect to see. If the GS-F / RC-F aren't seeing the problem, then it's likely because they're equipped with the transmission cooler that the non-F LC is missing. It would probably be a trivial thing to order the trans cooler from the two -F cars and put it on the LC.

While this doesn't disqualify the car for me, it's definitely another concern when comparing this car to other possible purchases. I only buy Japanese cars, in this case it has to be a convertible, so the most likely contenders are a (rumored) NSX Spyder or (rumored) S2000 reboot. If neither of those happen, then the LC probably wins by default.

It's a beautiful car, both inside and out. Probably the best car Toyota will ever allow their team to build (the LFA isn't a convertible, even if I could afford it lol). Most of my cars in my life have been Toyota/Lexus, so I'm a fan. Just trying to make an informed decision here.

Thanks

DRGibbons

We did not drive the GSf or the RCF on the track. They were used for slalom, skidpad, braking, etc. exercises and only the LC's were used on track.

In my opinion the issue, since it relates to both transmission and engine oil temperatures, probably has something to do with airflow through the respective coolers and/or cooler capacity. It certainly has nothing to do with altitude.as Laguna Seca is at 800' ASL. It has everything to do with the the heat being produced by the drivetrain and the ability of the systems to shed that heat.

As a point of reference, I live at 4,500' ASL and regularly make a lunch run up the hill to 9,000' ASL. Again, try as I might, I've never seen high temperatures on my drives,

The two cars you mention ((rumored) NSX Spyder or (rumored) S2000 reboot) are at least a few years in the future (if at all) and really aren't in the same category as the LC. Also, think of all the fun you'll miss waiting on them when you can go grab a LC now

jbuffett

For the overheating issues you saw at Laguna Seca, agreed altitude couldn't have been a factor. But with the more dense atmosphere at lower elevation comes an easier ability for the car to displace heat. The same track day at elevation should cause the cars to overheat more quickly. Your drives from 4500 to 9000 elevation aren't much different than the range where I'd be using it (12K+ here in Colorado is typically reserved for when I'm offroad), so if you aren't seeing the issue on such a drive then I suspect I wouldn't as well.

The problem is that my down payment ('00 NSX, 39K miles) is appreciating in value :-) so the longer I wait, the better. There is a legitimate risk that the two Honda's I'd consider never happen, no doubt. I'd expect the S2000 to be more like the LC than the NSX would be, but it's hard to call a rebooted S2000 "the best car Honda can make" as I view the LC to be for Toyota. For what the new NSX is, I'd definitely be under-utilizing it as a grand tourer.

S2000toIS350

I would imagine you could contact Matt for more details (did this happen out of the blue after 10 minutes of driving or did he go wild on the car for x period of time)

I have a Gen 2 NSX and have a long relationship with one of the NSX Specialists. He has never seen any development of a targa or convertible. The packaging of the hybrid battery leaves no room behind the seats to store a targa top. There is also no space to stow a folding roof.

I had a 2000 S 2000. That was a 50 year anniversary car. I also haven't seen anything credible on a re-boot. I blame my tinnitus on listening to that chainsaw of a motor as I would rev the blank out of every time I drove it.

winterturb

you have a valid point. I do believe the rcf and gsf do have transmission coolers. As the ISF does. This may be a question you should reach out to Luboxracer on the ISF and GSF forums and ask. PM him he may very well have the answer. He has access to the technical side of these cars through tech stream and is always super helpful on the tech side. Great chap

Considering where you live and driving you’ll
be doing your concern is very valid as you are the one likely to have trouble.

flowrider

iTrader: (9)

AFAIK The LC does not have a Transmission cooler. The ISF, RCF & the GSF do.

Lou

jbuffett

Chris Wayland @ Flatirons Acura in Boulder CO maintains my NA2, he's certified on the NC1 as well. What he's told me that he's hearing is (a) a Type-R variant based on the GT3 racecar drivetrain (turbos turned up, no hybrid bits), and (b) a removable targa version. Of the two, the Type-R makes more sense as they're building the racecars with that configuration already. The NA1 targa had a sales bump in '95 but not enough to probably justify the effort considering the NC1's low sales.

I haven't heard anything about an S2000 reboot as well, that's more hopeful on my part. The AP1 came after the NA1/NA2 NSX so I'd hope that it's in the works.

DRGibbons

The LC has a Water/Oil heat exchanger to manage Transmission oil temperatures. See the diagram below. It uses coolant to warm/cool the transmission. See the attached diagram of the system.

jbuffett

Can you get the similar diagram for the GS-F / RC-F to see if/how it's different?