Recommendations for best SQ subs?
02-25-04 | 04:56 PM
#17
02-25-04 | 11:14 PM
#19
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From: Alabama
Originally posted by 04GS300
A smaller woofer will always be better for SQ because they're smaller and can move faster, but it won't have as much bass because it can't move as much air, so you have to find a balance. If I were you, Hameed, I'd try to narrow it down to a couple of brands, then listen to one 10" and one 12" from those brands and then decide.
A smaller woofer will always be better for SQ because they're smaller and can move faster, but it won't have as much bass because it can't move as much air, so you have to find a balance. If I were you, Hameed, I'd try to narrow it down to a couple of brands, then listen to one 10" and one 12" from those brands and then decide.
Please refer to the following link: http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
Personally, I would go with one 12" simply due to cost as SPL difference would be inaudible. Should also take up less space. Is this going to be an IB install? Both the MAX and ED A series can be used with good results, though surprisingly neither is terribly overdamped...
02-26-04 | 04:41 AM
#20
Thread Starter
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lake Ontario
Originally posted by GaryDell
NOT TRUE. A subwoofer's ability to smoothly change the frequency being played is simply a matter of inductance not Mms. So often I hear people say that 15's are "slower" than 10's, yet if the cone truly is moving at a slower velocity on a 15" driver than a like 10", then the 15" is playing a different frequency! A higher Mms simply lowers Fs...
Please refer to the following link: http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
Personally, I would go with one 12" simply due to cost as SPL difference would be inaudible. Should also take up less space. Is this going to be an IB install? Both the MAX and ED A series can be used with good results, though surprisingly neither is terribly overdamped...
NOT TRUE. A subwoofer's ability to smoothly change the frequency being played is simply a matter of inductance not Mms. So often I hear people say that 15's are "slower" than 10's, yet if the cone truly is moving at a slower velocity on a 15" driver than a like 10", then the 15" is playing a different frequency! A higher Mms simply lowers Fs...
Please refer to the following link: http://www.adireaudio.com/tech_papers/woofer_speed.htm
Personally, I would go with one 12" simply due to cost as SPL difference would be inaudible. Should also take up less space. Is this going to be an IB install? Both the MAX and ED A series can be used with good results, though surprisingly neither is terribly overdamped...
What is an IB install?
I plan on competing in IASCA or any other reputable SQ competitions with the full intention of winning, not just competing. So doing the best possible SQ combination of speakers, HU and EQ and ofcourse speakers and sub plus the install is absolutely critical to me.
Has anyone else heard the Servodrive or OZ Audio subs?
02-26-04 | 07:02 AM
#21
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: ATL
Hey Hameed,
You going to make the drive to the Dragon again this year? lol! I'ts been awhile since I competed, so category weighting may have changed some, but, SPL is still a factor even in a pure SQ competition, so you need to be sure that whatever you do your SPL score is at least within a few points of what the maximum is for the category. So, you might check and see what the current maximum db is in the SPL category. If it is at or near 130db, you should be able to do that with a properly setup 10 or 12, but if it's anthing over 130db, you'll probably have to move to multiple drivers or a 15". Hope this helps.
Eric
You going to make the drive to the Dragon again this year? lol! I'ts been awhile since I competed, so category weighting may have changed some, but, SPL is still a factor even in a pure SQ competition, so you need to be sure that whatever you do your SPL score is at least within a few points of what the maximum is for the category. So, you might check and see what the current maximum db is in the SPL category. If it is at or near 130db, you should be able to do that with a properly setup 10 or 12, but if it's anthing over 130db, you'll probably have to move to multiple drivers or a 15". Hope this helps.
Eric
02-26-04 | 07:12 AM
#22
Thread Starter
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lake Ontario
Originally posted by BlackDiamond
Hey Hameed,
You going to make the drive to the Dragon again this year? lol! I'ts been awhile since I competed, so category weighting may have changed some, but, SPL is still a factor even in a pure SQ competition, so you need to be sure that whatever you do your SPL score is at least within a few points of what the maximum is for the category. So, you might check and see what the current maximum db is in the SPL category. If it is at or near 130db, you should be able to do that with a properly setup 10 or 12, but if it's anthing over 130db, you'll probably have to move to multiple drivers or a 15". Hope this helps.
Eric
Hey Hameed,
You going to make the drive to the Dragon again this year? lol! I'ts been awhile since I competed, so category weighting may have changed some, but, SPL is still a factor even in a pure SQ competition, so you need to be sure that whatever you do your SPL score is at least within a few points of what the maximum is for the category. So, you might check and see what the current maximum db is in the SPL category. If it is at or near 130db, you should be able to do that with a properly setup 10 or 12, but if it's anthing over 130db, you'll probably have to move to multiple drivers or a 15". Hope this helps.
Eric
How are your boys doing? Did you notice the HRE's that Dex originally had are mine now? Check out the link in my sig!No, I won't be making it to the Dragon - it was too hard on me and my family. If I was less than 5 hours away, I would definitely come down. You guys should all plan a trip up here to Canada in June - you would love it and I would be the tour guide. We could have an awesome meet up here with all of you SE guys!!!
How can I find out what the maximum db is in the SPL category? Know where I can find that online? I have looked at IASCA website, but I could not find that info there. Perhaps I was looking in the wrong place. I definitely want to do whatever it takes to win in a SQ category, so all of this info helps!
Cheers and don't be a stranger!
02-26-04 | 07:26 AM
#23
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: ATL
Stranger is right... haven't been on the boards or any meets from a couple weeks after the Dragon until about 2 months ago! Work, work, work! Having a meet up your way sounds like alot of fun... not sure how feasible it is, but it would be fun! You should be able to check with either of the competitors you're working with, and based on what class you'd be entering, they should be able to give you the number. You could probably post on one of the competition forums also, and of course anyone with a recent IASCA handbook or score sheet will have the numbers. Sounds like you're working on a killer system, I can't wait to see how it all turns out. I'll hopefully be starting my system soon, so maybe we can share ideas, sticking points, etc...
Best of luck,
Eric
Best of luck,
Eric
02-26-04 | 07:36 AM
#25
Thread Starter
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lake Ontario
I am taking a IASCA Judges traning seminar next weekend, so I am sure I can find out then!
A couple of awesome places to visit here in Ontario are CN Tower, Niagara Falls, Eaton Centre. It would be just amazing to see a convoy of a dozen of so heavily modified GS cars.
A couple of awesome places to visit here in Ontario are CN Tower, Niagara Falls, Eaton Centre. It would be just amazing to see a convoy of a dozen of so heavily modified GS cars.
02-26-04 | 07:46 AM
#26
Lexus Test Driver
Joined: Mar 2001
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From: ATL
Originally posted by O. L. T.
seeing blackdiamond's screen name reminded me of another world class operation, Diamond Audio, i dunno how i could forget them.
seeing blackdiamond's screen name reminded me of another world class operation, Diamond Audio, i dunno how i could forget them.
I thought of bringing them up as well, sound very good and reasonably priced too.Hameed, I'm sure you know this already, but just in case, maybe it will save you some $$$. With all the electronics you have, you won't need the passive crossovers that come with the cdt's or whatever front stage you'll be using, so if you can buy just the raw drivers you might be able to save a few bucks.
02-26-04 | 07:58 AM
#27
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Joined: Mar 2001
Posts: 349
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From: Georgia
There are about 50 different topics in this thread but I will try to give some constructive input. I used to compete in IASCA, USAC and SLAP shows. If I were you I would go check some out and see what other people are doing, you will get lots of input and ideas. There is a big difference in a system thats for the streets and one that will win IASCA shows. I dont know if you are talking about local shows or trying to go to the Finals, but there is a lot of competitiion out there.
Around here to win a local show people spend about 10K minimum, I cant even imagine what some of the cars at the finals cost to do. As for products, there are tons of options. As previously mentioned, Dynaudio, Servo, ID, Focal, OZ, and CDT are all good speaker/sub brands (IMO). I would choose whatever sounded the best to you and you could get support for. The only place I have ever ordered online is theautophile.com, Peter is a good guy, but I think he is mostly brax/helix now...
The second part of a system is the install, which is very important for an SQ car. You need to find the right shop that can build you a system that will hang. Im sure im not the only one who has seen a car full of kenwood beat a car full of Focal/Dynaudio at a show, based soley on the install. Also, IB stands for infinite baffle, subs without a true enclosure, its the setup that the GS subs from the factory use.
As previously mentioned I currently have 1000w rms running to each 12'' MAX and another 500 or so to the highs and mids. I also had monitors, lighting and other accesories. The stock GS electrical system will not handle this. I have an upgraded alternator, battery and 3F cap. I usually run both subs, but I have a switch that allows me to only use one which is what I do when the car is being SQ judged. MAXes probably arent the best SQ sub but they are a great mixture of SQ and SPL, they get LOUD. Hope this helped, if you are looking to learn more there are plenty of car audio FAQs and websites like termpro.com and sounddomain.com Good luck
Around here to win a local show people spend about 10K minimum, I cant even imagine what some of the cars at the finals cost to do. As for products, there are tons of options. As previously mentioned, Dynaudio, Servo, ID, Focal, OZ, and CDT are all good speaker/sub brands (IMO). I would choose whatever sounded the best to you and you could get support for. The only place I have ever ordered online is theautophile.com, Peter is a good guy, but I think he is mostly brax/helix now...
The second part of a system is the install, which is very important for an SQ car. You need to find the right shop that can build you a system that will hang. Im sure im not the only one who has seen a car full of kenwood beat a car full of Focal/Dynaudio at a show, based soley on the install. Also, IB stands for infinite baffle, subs without a true enclosure, its the setup that the GS subs from the factory use.
As previously mentioned I currently have 1000w rms running to each 12'' MAX and another 500 or so to the highs and mids. I also had monitors, lighting and other accesories. The stock GS electrical system will not handle this. I have an upgraded alternator, battery and 3F cap. I usually run both subs, but I have a switch that allows me to only use one which is what I do when the car is being SQ judged. MAXes probably arent the best SQ sub but they are a great mixture of SQ and SPL, they get LOUD. Hope this helped, if you are looking to learn more there are plenty of car audio FAQs and websites like termpro.com and sounddomain.com Good luck
02-26-04 | 08:05 AM
#28
Thread Starter
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
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From: Lake Ontario
This is what I have narrowed down my choices too:
1. HU and EQ: Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9
2. CDT Audio HD-62ST with the SatNet 560 crossovers. (front stage speakers) - these speakers sound absolutely amazing - even better than the DynAudio's in the critical mid range. They have 1 inch silk dome tweeters
3. Zapco C2K-4.0X 4 channel amp. Two channels to drive the fronts and the other two channels bridged to drive the subs.
4. I might get the CDT Audio TW19/LP image enhancement tweeters for the front staging.
5. Can't decide on subs yet - leaning towards the OZ Audio that OLT mentioned.
I will not be doing anything with the rear fill as that takes away from the front staging and that adversely affects SQ when competing.
1. HU and EQ: Pioneer Premier DEX-P9 and DEQ-P9
2. CDT Audio HD-62ST with the SatNet 560 crossovers. (front stage speakers) - these speakers sound absolutely amazing - even better than the DynAudio's in the critical mid range. They have 1 inch silk dome tweeters
3. Zapco C2K-4.0X 4 channel amp. Two channels to drive the fronts and the other two channels bridged to drive the subs.
4. I might get the CDT Audio TW19/LP image enhancement tweeters for the front staging.
5. Can't decide on subs yet - leaning towards the OZ Audio that OLT mentioned.
I will not be doing anything with the rear fill as that takes away from the front staging and that adversely affects SQ when competing.
02-26-04 | 10:06 AM
#29
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Joined: Mar 2001
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From: ATL
Hameed,
With that setup, you won't get much use out of the DEQ-P9, except for the equalization. The crossover portion and the time-alignment will be virtually wasted, and DEQ-P9's aren't that cheap, so I'm sure you don't want to spend alot of money and then only use one third of the product right?
The DEQ-P9 allows you to set a different crossover point and time delay for each speaker in a component setup. But, in order to fully use these features, you're going to have to use a one channel/one speaker setup... so if you use a two way component set, you'll need a four channel amp (or two 2 channel amps) with separate inputs for each channel. That way, the DEQ-P9 can send a specific cutoff frequency and time delay to each speaker channel. Otherwise, using the setup you have listed, the best you could hope to do would be to send a high pass frequency to the cdt crossover, which already has a high pass filter built in, and unless you are planning on mounting the tweeter point-source (like a coaxial), there would be no sense in sending any delay signal.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just hoping to point out some of the variables so you don't waste money...
Eric
With that setup, you won't get much use out of the DEQ-P9, except for the equalization. The crossover portion and the time-alignment will be virtually wasted, and DEQ-P9's aren't that cheap, so I'm sure you don't want to spend alot of money and then only use one third of the product right?
The DEQ-P9 allows you to set a different crossover point and time delay for each speaker in a component setup. But, in order to fully use these features, you're going to have to use a one channel/one speaker setup... so if you use a two way component set, you'll need a four channel amp (or two 2 channel amps) with separate inputs for each channel. That way, the DEQ-P9 can send a specific cutoff frequency and time delay to each speaker channel. Otherwise, using the setup you have listed, the best you could hope to do would be to send a high pass frequency to the cdt crossover, which already has a high pass filter built in, and unless you are planning on mounting the tweeter point-source (like a coaxial), there would be no sense in sending any delay signal.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just hoping to point out some of the variables so you don't waste money...
Eric
02-26-04 | 01:19 PM
#30
Thread Starter
EV ftw!!!
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 8,596
Likes: 326
From: Lake Ontario
Originally posted by BlackDiamond
Hameed,
With that setup, you won't get much use out of the DEQ-P9, except for the equalization. The crossover portion and the time-alignment will be virtually wasted, and DEQ-P9's aren't that cheap, so I'm sure you don't want to spend alot of money and then only use one third of the product right?
The DEQ-P9 allows you to set a different crossover point and time delay for each speaker in a component setup. But, in order to fully use these features, you're going to have to use a one channel/one speaker setup... so if you use a two way component set, you'll need a four channel amp (or two 2 channel amps) with separate inputs for each channel. That way, the DEQ-P9 can send a specific cutoff frequency and time delay to each speaker channel. Otherwise, using the setup you have listed, the best you could hope to do would be to send a high pass frequency to the cdt crossover, which already has a high pass filter built in, and unless you are planning on mounting the tweeter point-source (like a coaxial), there would be no sense in sending any delay signal.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just hoping to point out some of the variables so you don't waste money...
Eric
Hameed,
With that setup, you won't get much use out of the DEQ-P9, except for the equalization. The crossover portion and the time-alignment will be virtually wasted, and DEQ-P9's aren't that cheap, so I'm sure you don't want to spend alot of money and then only use one third of the product right?
The DEQ-P9 allows you to set a different crossover point and time delay for each speaker in a component setup. But, in order to fully use these features, you're going to have to use a one channel/one speaker setup... so if you use a two way component set, you'll need a four channel amp (or two 2 channel amps) with separate inputs for each channel. That way, the DEQ-P9 can send a specific cutoff frequency and time delay to each speaker channel. Otherwise, using the setup you have listed, the best you could hope to do would be to send a high pass frequency to the cdt crossover, which already has a high pass filter built in, and unless you are planning on mounting the tweeter point-source (like a coaxial), there would be no sense in sending any delay signal.
I'm not trying to discourage you, just hoping to point out some of the variables so you don't waste money...
Eric
Seriously, are you saying that because of the 2 component speakers I would need a 4 channel amp just to power the front speakers? I guess the bottom line here is how would I achieve a winning SQ setup, if I go ahead with the components I listed?At the end of the day, what matters more than anything else to me (even beyond competing) is to have a stereo system that kicks some major butt. Any other suggestions or insights you can share would be most appreciated. I am not discouraged by any comments from anyone!
This is a learning experience for me and I am soaking in as much as my brain can absorb!!
Last edited by Hameed; 02-26-04 at 01:19 PM.