JohnGS4

I am thinking that because i have the Pioneer Nav system, and speakers, i want to finish out the whole pioneer system. I am thinking of going with the Pioneer Premier TSW-2000SPL or TSW-5000SPL subwoofer. Probably not going to do a Pioneer Amp, unless they have a decent one, or you guys have any suggestions. What do you think of the sub?

John

LS400

Since it sounds like you're looking for a solid daily-driving subwoofer, I would look somewhere else (based on both pricing and performance). The Pioneer TSW-2000SPL and TSW-5000SPL can work for daily-driving, but there are better choices out there. By the way, Team Edge Audio used the TSW-5000SPL's and won the Extreme 9+ class at the '03 dB Drag World Finals (just a little information).

Here's a few subwoofers I would recommend looking at.

Subwoofers:
Resonant Engineering XXX
Image Dynamics IDMAX v.3
Adire Audio Brahma MKII
Stereo Integrity Magnum D2
Orion H2
Elemental Designs A-series (currently being redesigned)

For amplifiers, there's also a few out there.

Amplifiers:
Zapco
Orion
Tru Technology
Crossfire
JBL
MTX (yes, their amplifiers are pretty solid)

Just a few off the top of my head.

JohnGS4

Just noticing: Of all the amplifiers you suggested, you didn't say JL Audio W7 series, or Eclipse...Any particular reason behind that?

I really haven't heard of many of the one's you suggested, but will definately look at them. I know a little bit about subwoofers, and can distinguish between a good on and a bad one. Thanks for the info on the 5000spl also.

John

LS400

Well, JL Audio and Eclipse does make some nice products, but for the money, there are better-performing and more cost-efficient products out there. I guess you can call me an "un-mainstream" type of audio-consumer.

Just some websites for reference (leading to the companies of subs' and amps' I suggested).

www.reaudio.com
www.imagedynamicsusa.com (if you have anymore questions about their stuff, contact retrodrive as he is all knowing about Image Dynamics, hehe).
www.adireaudio.com
www.orioncaraudio.com
www.stereointegrity.com
www.edesignaudio.com
www.zapco.com
www.trutechnology.com
www.crossfirecaraudio.com

Lexis11

I would say JL Audio is right around the same price point as the other amps you mentioned especially the Zapco and the Orion amps.
As for performance you really can't knock the JL's because they provide the same power at 1.5 ohms all the way to 4 ohms. I have the JL 500/1 and the 300/4 with 210w6 and my system sounds good just ask D.

JohnGS4

LS400: Being and un-mainstream consumer isn't necessarily a bad thing. People like you make company's like JL and Eclipse popular. So you might make some of the other company's that aren't that popular, will be! I did find some of the products you mentioned, quite impressive i might say! And yes, quite a bit cheaper than the JL and Eclipse.

Lexis11: Your right, JL is definately top notch, and can't really be shut down, if you know what i mean. I have heard every amp and subwoofer that's out, and have found JL to be the most dominant subwoofer/amp combo out. I just like to weigh my options and see if the money i am saving is worth it. Will leave me more money for future mods

Lexis11

I totally agree John, just take your time and choose something nice because audio is something that if done right can provide an ultimate high everytime you drive. My car is my sylum(sp?). I get in it and smile because I have created a nice system that I love. If you need any help with Jl any questions just pm me I will be glad to help.

JohnGS4

Thanks Lexis11, i will definately do so. JL has been in my heart for a long time, and if i can't find anything to compete, i am going to go that route. But i'm not dissing anything LS400 said about his products, b/c they are also all very good. Just gotta see where the bankroll lands me, and see what i can do with what i got. but if i don't find anything, i can just save up and hit that JL.!

John

LS400

I guess I'm un-mainstream because mainstream-consumers usually purchase because of the name and not for the performance. Also, when you look at many of the car audio competition scenes (dB Drag, IASCA, USACi, MECA, NSPL, SLAP, etc.), you will notice that many of the successful competitors use products that are not mainstream (there are some, but not many). Many mainstream companies' products have really gone downhill quality-wise (not saying JL or Eclipse's products are bad, but there are companies that simply produce garbage now).

Example...back in the early days when Rockford Fosgate was originally named, Fosgate, the products were great (stout, reliable, etc.). Now, when you look at Rockford Fosgate products, they are simply trash (only their Team RF products and their BD amplifiers still do quite well in the SPL competition field). I guess it's simple evolution. Maybe the un-mainstream companies will become popular and the glory will go over their heads (following a similar trend). I guess we'll let time tell...

I'm not completely knockin' these companies. I do respect the fact that they took advantange of their situations and were able to use it to their success (they are the ones making the money).

Back to JL Audio...for performance, the W7 is a great daily-driver subwoofer (since it was what you are looking for). Their amplifiers have some impressive stuff (I guess that explains the hefty price tag). That would mean JL's products are proprietary. Since the 10"/12" W7's use a single 3-ohm VC (13.5" uses dual 1.5-ohm), JL would "highly recommend" that you purchase their amplifiers (since they do the same power between 1.5 - 4 ohms) in order for you to make use of its full abilities. They restrict the wiring options for the W7's. After all, there's hardly any amplifiers out there that actually perform its best @ 3 ohms.

Quite a few of my friends did a test between a 12" JL W7 and a 12" Resonant Engineering XXX. Each was placed in their recommended enclosures and fed them somewhat suitable power. The W7 was given a JL 1000/1 monoblock while the XXX was given a Crossfire VR1000D. Needless to say, the XXX scored higher on the SPL mic', both with sine sweeps, (mics' don't lie...or do they? ) and more of us preferred the quality of the XXX over the W7. Of course, judging SQ is more subjective than measuring SPL.

There are no "best" products. Products can only play so much a factor. After that, everything else depends on the quality of the installation. You can take a Radio Shack Optimus subwoofer and make it sound better than a Focal or Velodyne sub'.

JohnGS4 - You heard every amp' and subwoofer out there? Then you shouldn't be asking about the TSW-5000SPL's. Just kiddin'.

JohnGS4

I haven't heard all the amps and subwoofer out there, that would be almost impossible! lol, I have heard all of the new JL Audio amps. I haven't compared the JL amplifiers or subwoofers to much, but the new JL amps, i have listened to them all, and agree that the right amp and right subwoofer combination of JL products is outstanding! But, like you stated previously, the price tag is quite hefty! I am young, therefore on a budget greater than a lot of you guys lol, so weighing my options, is a must! i can't go by hear-say, and just purchase a product. i wouldn't anyway. that's why i post here! lol The TS-W2000/5000SPL, was simply to finish off my pioneer system throughout. Even tho that was my initial plan, after seeing some of the products you listed, i am quite interested in hearing some of them, and how they compare to some of the products i am more farmiliar with.

whatuusay1

I can speak for the Resonant Engineering Subs - I have a 12" XXX and love it - Quality stuff! I have this going through a 1000 mono Hifonics amp - Hits very hard and deep. This is an replacement for the 10" stock Nak sub that just wasnt cutting it :P

I had a custom box made so it and the amp sit on the back 'shelf' in my 99GS400 - Very economical and resonable on space. No headaches about not 'having' a trunk anymore. Sorry i dont have a pic of the full install - however heres a peak at the sub - Trust me, very nice! I can say the best thing about my setup is the ability to go from the rap music to very tight punchy rock. If your interested in a sub that will be very accoustically acurate so that you can listen to music other than rap - this deffinetally fits the bill.

Lexis11

Wow this is a good thread. Lots of different opinions which all seem to be good ones. You can tell we are bias from what we have huh lol. I love JL you love Hiphonics, it just says a lot for our taste, we picked the right amp/sub combo to make us happy and that is what you should do John is pick something YOU like when youy listen to it.


Oh how is this possible???? ^^ lol

LS400

The installation is the key here. Let's take the Focal 38 WX for example...there's many factors that can make any sub' (let alone a Focal) sound like poo (a poorly-built enclosure, too big of a box, too small of a box, way too many sq. inches of port, etc.). In this case, if you were to put the 38 WX in a 10 cubic feet net enclosure with 500 sq. inches of port tuned to 60 hertz. Farting in a bag would sound better, hehehe.

Lexis11

Yes you are correct but that is an extreme lol./

12volt

Guys,

When you are referring to brands that are good, bad or suck.....just remember that products change year over year as well as employees. I've read many things about Rockford being good in the old days and not very good now. However, the new Rockford products for 2004 (over 100+) are unbelievable! New people=new products. Rockford has redesigned every product to be better than ever.

If there is a product that compares to the new Power series amps or subs.....let me know and I can give you some facts and not opinions to help make your decision.