HELP! Need to install 6.5 in front doors Y2K GS4 (CDT HD)
07-22-04, 02:24 PM
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HELP! Need to install 6.5 in front doors Y2K GS4 (CDT HD)
I just picked up some CDT HD-62 for the front doors, The speakers are too deep, do I cut away the backing? Will there be anything behind the pods? Can anyone point me to the right direction? I have all the required tools, just need the how to's.
07-23-04, 06:41 AM
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I don't want to change the stock appearance what so ever. I found a tutorial on here that I think I'll try.
Here's what I found
Model: HD-62 (HD-6)
Frame diameter: 6 11/16 "Mounting depth: 2 3/4 "Mounting hole: 5 11/16" Enclosure sealed: .3cbf Designed for perfect performance in (infinite) well dampened stock door Locations.
Does it look do-able? I'm about to order some 3" foam baffle and give it a shot.
Here's what I found
Model: HD-62 (HD-6)
Frame diameter: 6 11/16 "Mounting depth: 2 3/4 "Mounting hole: 5 11/16" Enclosure sealed: .3cbf Designed for perfect performance in (infinite) well dampened stock door Locations.
Does it look do-able? I'm about to order some 3" foam baffle and give it a shot.
07-24-04, 05:23 PM
#4
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It's a good plan to start off with. BUT, why do you need the foam baffles? IME, you're much better off with a MDF (medium density fiberboard) and make the baffles from there. Foam baffles, especially the ones from XTC, are a waste of money. The lexus is already sealed up fairly well in the doors and if the speakers are plastic/poly (or even a paper mix) they'll hold up fairly well.
I've had another member on the board use XTC baffles and due to the restrictions (baffle covering the entire rear of the midwoofer) the speaker lost alot of it's midbass and some midrange performance. Best thing to do is the make a baffle board (note...doesn't cover the rear of the speaker, but lets it use the door as an enclosure), make a 1/2 inch spacer ring and then use some Deflex material on the door itself. The Deflex helps to prevent the "hollow can" sound...works great.
Remember...foam baffles cover the entire rear of the speaker. The baffles that I'm talking about are basically a plate (you make) that the speaker can mount to. BIG difference in sound.
Percy
I've had another member on the board use XTC baffles and due to the restrictions (baffle covering the entire rear of the midwoofer) the speaker lost alot of it's midbass and some midrange performance. Best thing to do is the make a baffle board (note...doesn't cover the rear of the speaker, but lets it use the door as an enclosure), make a 1/2 inch spacer ring and then use some Deflex material on the door itself. The Deflex helps to prevent the "hollow can" sound...works great.
Remember...foam baffles cover the entire rear of the speaker. The baffles that I'm talking about are basically a plate (you make) that the speaker can mount to. BIG difference in sound.
Percy
07-24-04, 10:22 PM
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I haven't really spent to much time looking at the layout of the doors etc.. not sure how much room I have back there. Maybe I'll just make it simple and make the pods to mount the speaker on and leave everything behind it open and forget about the baffles. Then I'll dynamat the doors to make it more solid.
07-25-04, 03:11 AM
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6.5" in front doors? Wow...thats gonna be a challenge...but im sure its doable if the depth is cool.
Btw...did you review BananaGS' DIY page on upgrading speakers for the GS?
http://lexusmodz.netfirms.com/GS_DIY...ers/index.html
Pete
Btw...did you review BananaGS' DIY page on upgrading speakers for the GS?
http://lexusmodz.netfirms.com/GS_DIY...ers/index.html
Pete
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07-25-04, 06:58 AM
#8
Hi, Percy: I am about to start installing the Dynaudio 240 GTs . No problem there; I am not sure if I put XTC foam baffles or not, am still thinking about it; Now, the amp. Is a Zapco 2CK -4.0X comp. I called a Zapco dealer close to where I live, and the installer told me that he would install it for me, but without LLC converters, that, because the Zapco uses a balanced lines, he can make the connections directly from the stock amp, that it makes no sense connecting a high quality amp to a Line converter. This way(his way) the quality is intact. Engin_ear `s opinion is that it can be done, but, somehow, I am a bit confused about it . It is possible to do that ? How, if it is possible, everybody else is going the Line converter way, that it is in a sense, a downgrade ? I will really like you expertise on this, before I commit myself to this . Mine is a 2000 GS-400 with the Pioneer and Nav. I plan to use the stock head unit and the stock cd player. My plan is to install the speakers myself and leave the amp to the installer. Already did the doors with the Dynamat extreme. Thanks for your time ........ Josey
Last edited by Josey; 07-25-04 at 08:34 AM.
07-25-04, 12:24 PM
#9
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally posted by Josey
Hi, Percy: I am about to start installing the Dynaudio 240 GTs . No problem there; I am not sure if I put XTC foam baffles or not, am still thinking about it;
***Stay away from the XTC baffles. They're just going to hinder performance and the overall area behind the speaker.***
Now, the amp. Is a Zapco 2CK -4.0X comp. I called a Zapco dealer close to where I live, and the installer told me that he would install it for me, but without LLC converters, that, because the Zapco uses a balanced lines, he can make the connections directly from the stock amp, that it makes no sense connecting a high quality amp to a Line converter. This way(his way) the quality is intact.
***OK...it sounds like the guy DOES NOT know what he's talking about. If you're using the STOCK head unit and a STOCK amp, you need the line level converters. You CANNOT just hook up the stock amp output to the Zapco directly, unless it has LLC's built in. More than likely it doesn't. You're taking a HIGH level signal (amplified from stock amp) and then trying to push it into an amp which needs LOW LEVEL signal - INSTANT CLIPPING and possible burnout of the amp! Forget about the "balanced line" stuff...marketing hype. NOTE...Balanced lines just means that they're noise canceling...NO BIG DEAL. Mc uses these also, but it's at the op amp level, and far more effective. Basically a NFB loop and very easily implemented.***
Engin_ear `s opinion is that it can be done, but, somehow, I am a bit confused about it .
***Engin_ear knows as well as I do that the low level inputs are a pain to work with, especially in the 2nd Gen GS. Now if it's a SC, then you can perform the "low level hack". It's still *possible* in the 2nd gen GS, but more trouble than it's worth.***
It is possible to do that ? How, if it is possible, everybody else is going the Line converter way, that it is in a sense, a downgrade ?
***It's possible, but LOTS of trouble...more than it's really worth. There are two sets of L/R outputs, each independent of each other. One set is for the FM/AM/Tape and the other is for CD only. You'd have to make some sort of switching array. Even if you did have the array, then the head unit (stock) would be the limitation and it's distortion is still a bit higher than aftermarket gear. The LLC, hooked up to the stock amp/HU combo is a good option. Nice and simple. As for it being a "downgrade"...it all depends on how you look at it. From the HU/stock amp on back, it's a definite upgrade, especially if you're putting in aftermarket gear. Now if you look at it from the aftermarket gear on back (signal going back to the HU/ stock amp) then it would seem like a downgrade, but in reality you're starting off no worse than you were. Most LLC's are junk...the Audiolinks are very very good.***
I will really like you expertise on this, before I commit myself to this . Mine is a 2000 GS-400 with the Pioneer and Nav. I plan to use the stock head unit and the stock cd player. My plan is to install the speakers myself and leave the amp to the installer. Already did the doors with the Dynamat extreme. Thanks for your time ........ Josey
Hi, Percy: I am about to start installing the Dynaudio 240 GTs . No problem there; I am not sure if I put XTC foam baffles or not, am still thinking about it;
***Stay away from the XTC baffles. They're just going to hinder performance and the overall area behind the speaker.***
Now, the amp. Is a Zapco 2CK -4.0X comp. I called a Zapco dealer close to where I live, and the installer told me that he would install it for me, but without LLC converters, that, because the Zapco uses a balanced lines, he can make the connections directly from the stock amp, that it makes no sense connecting a high quality amp to a Line converter. This way(his way) the quality is intact.
***OK...it sounds like the guy DOES NOT know what he's talking about. If you're using the STOCK head unit and a STOCK amp, you need the line level converters. You CANNOT just hook up the stock amp output to the Zapco directly, unless it has LLC's built in. More than likely it doesn't. You're taking a HIGH level signal (amplified from stock amp) and then trying to push it into an amp which needs LOW LEVEL signal - INSTANT CLIPPING and possible burnout of the amp! Forget about the "balanced line" stuff...marketing hype. NOTE...Balanced lines just means that they're noise canceling...NO BIG DEAL. Mc uses these also, but it's at the op amp level, and far more effective. Basically a NFB loop and very easily implemented.***
Engin_ear `s opinion is that it can be done, but, somehow, I am a bit confused about it .
***Engin_ear knows as well as I do that the low level inputs are a pain to work with, especially in the 2nd Gen GS. Now if it's a SC, then you can perform the "low level hack". It's still *possible* in the 2nd gen GS, but more trouble than it's worth.***
It is possible to do that ? How, if it is possible, everybody else is going the Line converter way, that it is in a sense, a downgrade ?
***It's possible, but LOTS of trouble...more than it's really worth. There are two sets of L/R outputs, each independent of each other. One set is for the FM/AM/Tape and the other is for CD only. You'd have to make some sort of switching array. Even if you did have the array, then the head unit (stock) would be the limitation and it's distortion is still a bit higher than aftermarket gear. The LLC, hooked up to the stock amp/HU combo is a good option. Nice and simple. As for it being a "downgrade"...it all depends on how you look at it. From the HU/stock amp on back, it's a definite upgrade, especially if you're putting in aftermarket gear. Now if you look at it from the aftermarket gear on back (signal going back to the HU/ stock amp) then it would seem like a downgrade, but in reality you're starting off no worse than you were. Most LLC's are junk...the Audiolinks are very very good.***
I will really like you expertise on this, before I commit myself to this . Mine is a 2000 GS-400 with the Pioneer and Nav. I plan to use the stock head unit and the stock cd player. My plan is to install the speakers myself and leave the amp to the installer. Already did the doors with the Dynamat extreme. Thanks for your time ........ Josey
***Percy
07-25-04, 03:35 PM
#10
O.K. it makes a lot of sense. I tell you what am going to do : When I finish installing the Dyns , I`ll go to this guy, and he will explain to me in detail, and before he touches anything, how he plans on doing the install. Maybe, the guy likes to do it the difficult way, you know, getting into the 2 outputs and using a switching array, etc, then it will be okay,since that option is the same or slightly better that the LLCs way, but otherwise, I walk out and I`ll order the 2 Audiolinks from Crutchfield, and either do it myself or go to somewhere else to have it done. What do you think ? I do not want to keep sinking money into this , because, is really no end to it ; If am going to upgrade the HU I may as well get the one with DVD, the cd changer upgraded too, and , since am doing the two I very well do the Nav, and etc, etc,etc, The way I see it, this is the best of two worlds, I get better resolution in sound with the speakers and the Zapco, and that is all I want. BTW , how I can get in touch with some Deflex panels ? I used Dynamat Extreme in the doors, the door panels side, but you mean using deflex inside the doors ? I like it; that is a very good idea. Am getting rid of the XTC foam baffles. Josey
07-25-04, 06:42 PM
#11
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Do the installation YOURSELF. This will save you lots of bucks, and from the gut feel of the shop, ALOT of headaches. It's not THAT tough to do as most of the members will confirm.
I definitely wouldn't let that shop touch my car. If they hype BS, then it's not worth the chance.
Deflex panels can be purchased here. You only need the standard panel.
http://www.madisound.com/deflex.html
Percy
I definitely wouldn't let that shop touch my car. If they hype BS, then it's not worth the chance.
Deflex panels can be purchased here. You only need the standard panel.
http://www.madisound.com/deflex.html
Percy
07-26-04, 12:03 PM
#13
Well, Percy, you have convinced me; I am going to do it myself. I have already returned the XTC baffles to Crutchfield, ordered the Deflex panels (4), 1 for each door, and also ordered the Audiolinks IIs (3) because am replacing the cheapy one I have with my Sub/amp set up. Later am getting the MDF panel for the trunk install. O.K. Now , I have a couple of questions that I need answered. 1) What will I need for the on and off of the amp, something like a signal sensor, as in the home Subwoofer ? I need that answer. 2) Can I tap and connect the output speakers wires close to the stock amp ? The Zapco comes with this neat transmitters and balanced cables and, if possible, I want to use them. I think I can distinguish the wires by the colors(am guessing here) because if I have to take the cables to the speakers connections, it will be a mess of cables coming and going tru the doors... So, this way, and , let me see if I understand this correctly, it will be a lot neat, I will use short patch cables from the LLCs(good ones) to the transmitters (the LLCs and the transmitters will be installed close to the stock amp) , and from the transmitters I will use the balanced cable the whole lengh of the distance to the amp, in the trunk. Wow, I feel like trying to fit in a 15 feet wide shirt...!!! Man, I hope I can do this. In any case, I want to thank you for your advise and for sharing your knowledge with me. Thanks again.. Josey ps: I`ll keep you informed of the install.
07-26-04, 12:10 PM
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Here's a little something that would help you. out, also check out his website for a bunch of other mods and DIY stuff.
http://lexusmodz.netfirms.com/GS_DIY/stereo
http://lexusmodz.netfirms.com/GS_DIY/stereo
Last edited by dannieboiz; 07-26-04 at 12:16 PM.
07-26-04, 05:24 PM
#15
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Originally posted by Josey
Well, Percy, you have convinced me; I am going to do it myself. I have already returned the XTC baffles to Crutchfield, ordered the Deflex panels (4), 1 for each door, and also ordered the Audiolinks IIs (3) because am replacing the cheapy one I have with my Sub/amp set up. Later am getting the MDF panel for the trunk install. O.K. Now , I have a couple of questions that I need answered. 1) What will I need for the on and off of the amp, something like a signal sensor, as in the home Subwoofer ?
***Check the DIY site for this answer.***
I need that answer. 2) Can I tap and connect the output speakers wires close to the stock amp ?
***Sure. Shouldn't be any problems there.***
The Zapco comes with this neat transmitters and balanced cables and, if possible, I want to use them. I think I can distinguish the wires by the colors(am guessing here) because if I have to take the cables to the speakers connections, it will be a mess of cables coming and going tru the doors... So, this way, and , let me see if I understand this correctly, it will be a lot neat, I will use short patch cables from the LLCs(good ones) to the transmitters (the LLCs and the transmitters will be installed close to the stock amp) , and from the transmitters I will use the balanced cable the whole lengh of the distance to the amp, in the trunk. Wow, I feel like trying to fit in a 15 feet wide shirt...!!! Man, I hope I can do this. In any case, I want to thank you for your advise and for sharing your knowledge with me. Thanks again.. Josey ps: I`ll keep you informed of the install.
Well, Percy, you have convinced me; I am going to do it myself. I have already returned the XTC baffles to Crutchfield, ordered the Deflex panels (4), 1 for each door, and also ordered the Audiolinks IIs (3) because am replacing the cheapy one I have with my Sub/amp set up. Later am getting the MDF panel for the trunk install. O.K. Now , I have a couple of questions that I need answered. 1) What will I need for the on and off of the amp, something like a signal sensor, as in the home Subwoofer ?
***Check the DIY site for this answer.***
I need that answer. 2) Can I tap and connect the output speakers wires close to the stock amp ?
***Sure. Shouldn't be any problems there.***
The Zapco comes with this neat transmitters and balanced cables and, if possible, I want to use them. I think I can distinguish the wires by the colors(am guessing here) because if I have to take the cables to the speakers connections, it will be a mess of cables coming and going tru the doors... So, this way, and , let me see if I understand this correctly, it will be a lot neat, I will use short patch cables from the LLCs(good ones) to the transmitters (the LLCs and the transmitters will be installed close to the stock amp) , and from the transmitters I will use the balanced cable the whole lengh of the distance to the amp, in the trunk. Wow, I feel like trying to fit in a 15 feet wide shirt...!!! Man, I hope I can do this. In any case, I want to thank you for your advise and for sharing your knowledge with me. Thanks again.. Josey ps: I`ll keep you informed of the install.
Percy