mumbles

Guys, guys, I thought we were talking about sound? If you want to talk about smells, lets talk about AMF Kricket speakers............ now those STINK!

GSAristo

Hi Percy,

Here's the system component list in my '99 GS300 (for now!)... :-)

Alpine CVA-1005 Multimedia Controller
Alpine DVA-5205 DVD/CD/CD Video Player
NEO-35 MP3 Player (with Maxtor 20 GB hard drive)
Orion DEQ-30 Equalizer
2 Precision Power PC-4800.2 Amplifiers
USD AUDIO A7.0 Horn Loaded Compression Drivers (under each side of dash)
Focal 6.5 inch Midbass Speakers (front doors)
Focal 6.5 inch Coaxial Speakers (rear doors)
Focal 13 inch Subwoofer (under rear deck - infinite baffle)
2 1 Farad Streetwires Capacitors
1 Streetwires Gel Cell Battery
Dynamat Sound Damping Material (interior and trunk)
Scosche Noise Killer (speaker baffles)

I took some pics while my buddy and I were doing the installation, and finally scanned them in. I will hopefully get around to putting them up on a site to share with everyone very soon.

Percy

How do the HLCD's sound? I've heard them in the LS430 ML system and was actually impressed!

Percy

amlin423

Hi Allan,
How does the focal sub sound as free air? I remember from an old post that you had mounted it on two pieces of 1 inch thick MDF w/ dynomat sandwiched in between and everything bolted to the bottom of the deck, am I correct? How much power are you pushing it with. Didn't you also mount your amps to that little hump in the trunk? I don't know what is underneath (gas tank?) so I don't dare drill anything.

Guys I just got my Dyns and I'm going to install it this weekend. I was just wondering if the 4 inchers in the front is receiving an all pass signal. If that's the case then I'm just going to wire that to the dyn cross overs and from the x-overs to the dyns. If not then I'll have to either wait for my Mac or find the amp and see if I can disengage it (doubt I can do that.....where is the amp anyways?) I know it's really bad to under power a speaker. Is the stock amp enough to power the dyns? should I watchout and not turn up the volume too loud?

Percy, I have another Mcintosh question. Apparently the mcintosh website is REALLY out of date because the MC444 has been replaced by a 404. I heard the new one is a whole lot easier to configure and actually gives about 400 watts when bridged (the old one I think only provided around 250 watts when bridged....forgot where I heard this) Have you heard this new amp? Also are there new crossovers and equalizers or is it still the MEN 455,456 and MEQ 451, 452.....

Thanks
Andrew

GSAristo

Percy, IMO the HLCD's are in a word... breathtaking. The soundstage is fairly wide, with good depth, and a decent center image. My only concern is the height (though it is about dash level). I think with some tuning I can raise it up higher. Yep, there's no equalization settings yet - that's why I'm pretty impressed. In terms of sound quality, the clarity is amazing at low, mid and high volumes. You can literally hear the vocalist take in a breadth just before singing the next verse. Wow!

Andrew, you are correct about my sub baffle configuration. At first I was hesitant on the sound quality. Actually I was a little dissapointed on how at high volumes my Orion HCCA 225 wasn't able to control it. After switching to a PPI 4800.2, the 400watts rms makes a major difference. The sub is more dynamic and actually goes to lower octaves (you can feel it) at all listening levels. The amp rack is an "L" shape and is bolted to the crossmembers right behind the rear seat-back. It's pretty tightly seated, so I didn't need to drill into the actual "hump" between the strut towers.

I wish you guys could actually listen to my setup. I'd really like to get your comments on it. Maybe those that have listened to it can post their opinions, since I maybe a bit biased since I did design and install it. LOL :-)

Here are some pics of the HLCD before (not the exact A7.0, but close) and after installation (with no grill to cover it). Also here's a pic of my current sub and amp configuration in the trunk.

Ira Senoff

Actually, ARC was not established by Rob Zeff, their original amplifier design was. ARC is actually owned by several other people - to my knowledge, Zeff has no ownership interest. Further, the statement that ARC is more high end than Zapco is a falsehood and sounds more like your opinion than anything else. Re: partnership w/ Brax and Rainbow - unknown but unlikely. Brax and ARC are both marketing amplifiers in the high end market - albeit at two totally different price points - nonetheless, why partner with your competitor? Doesn't make sense, does it..... As far as IASCA finals, time will tell but my thought is that there will be far more Zapco cars on stage than there are ARC cars in attendance. As a member of Zapco's "Team Driving Force" I know of at least two dozen killer Zapco cars heading towards finals: Scott Buwalda, Phil Petracca, Ryan Chin, Mike Galligan, Bill Acevedo, Chris Stripto, Jayson King, and myself (if the car is done in time) just to name a few. Each guy is a fairly heavy hitter in his respective class. Should be interesting to see.............

Percy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by amlin423
[B]

Guys I just got my Dyns and I'm going to install it this weekend. I was just wondering if the 4 inchers in the front is receiving an all pass signal.

**They're not receiving an all pass. More like 100hz up but they sound a bit deeper due to the ported tuning of the enclosure.

If not then I'll have to either wait for my Mac or find the amp and see if I can disengage it (doubt I can do that.....where is the amp anyways?) I know it's really bad to under power a speaker. Is the stock amp enough to power the dyns? should I watchout and not turn up the volume too loud?


**Stock amp will power the Dyns to a certain point but it depends on how loud you currently listen to the system. If you normally listen to the system at 10 o clock or below on the dial then you should be fine. If you listen to it any higher then I'd be very careful!

Percy, I have another Mcintosh question. Apparently the mcintosh website is REALLY out of date because the MC444 has been replaced by a 404. I heard the new one is a whole lot easier to configure and actually gives about 400 watts when bridged (the old one I think only provided around 250 watts when bridged....forgot where I heard this) Have you heard this new amp? Also are there new crossovers and equalizers or is it still the MEN 455,456 and MEQ 451, 452.....

**As far as I know, the crossovers and eq's are still the same. As for the 404, haven't seen or heard of it yet. But, the nice thing about a high end piece is that it rarely changes. They're the same basic amps that were relaeased in '94! I haven't heard of anything yet that can beat a McIntosh amp in the car audio realm. Modified, it gets even better. The only amp that I can say will honest beat the McIntosh amp is the 6000 USD Krell FPB 250 series but that's for home. 250 watts a channel and weighs around 80 pounds if I remember correctly. But, that's a Krell. Oh, also the Levinson Monoblock 33's. $$$$$$!

Percy

retrodrive

Ok, I've heard al2jzge's system and it indeed pretty impressive. The sound bass in his car is very precise and punchy. To say the truth I did not expect this kind of precision from a free air sub. I didn't get to listen to the component setup to appreciate it fully, but I liked what I've heard a lot. I hope next time I will get the chance to listen to it longer.
I didn't realise you installed all the stuff yourself. Many props to you on that! BTW, I am that Russian dude who was talking about Rainbow Pro's

Ira: The ARC Audio was originnaly planned to be more advanced and better sounding then Zapco. You are right it is just my oppinion that they are better, however they didn't have time to proove themselves yet they are a fairly new company on the market. Brax makes Capacitors for ARC Audio and it is a fact that I am positive about. As far as Rainbows go, ARC Audio is their official dealer...pretty much the only one out there. I give all the props to Zapco, but I am sure that ARC will demonstrate what it can do at the finals. I do not think there will be many people having ARC Audio in their systems comparigng to Zapco though.

mumbles

Percy, it's interesting that you liked the HLCD's. While I've only listened to one set, I felt like they were somewhat constricted. I attributed this to the fact that one driver was trying to produce so much of the frequency spectrum. The did have an excellent width and image to them though!

Percy

Eric,

You're right about the width of the stage. The only HLCD's that I've listened to were in the LS430. Surprisingly good image. Not anywhere as neutral as the Dyns but still surprisingly good. Usually when someone mentions 'horns" I think of the terrible sounding Klipsch horns. YUCK. Yes, they're efficient but they have much to be desired in terms of spectral balance!

Percy

mumbles

Percy,
One of these days I'm gonna have to listen to these "Dyn things" you keep talkin about About the HLCD's, they sound wonderfull if you are listening to a relatively quiet passage, but as soon as things start to get busy, they got pretty fatiguing pretty fast... IMO. I may find the Quart tweeters do this in the GS. When I bought them it was specifically for use in kick panels where the distance to the ear softened the brightness somewhat. I'm leaning away from kicks in the GS though, because even though I've been concentrating on not doing so, I can't keep my left foot from ending up on the dead pedal where the kick would go. I guess it's the natural position for me in the GS. My old car was a manual, so I wound up keeping my left foot near the clutch.

theSSthatcould

hummm, well, i have a stock system....OUCH.

Percy

One of these days I'm gonna have to listen to these "Dyn things" you keep talkin about About the HLCD's, they sound wonderfull if you are listening to a relatively quiet passage, but as soon as things start to get busy, they got pretty fatiguing pretty fast... IMO. I may find the Quart tweeters do this in the GS. When I bought them it was specifically for use in kick panels where the distance to the ear softened the brightness somewhat.


Eric,

The Quart tweets will ALWAY sound very bright. Seems like alot of people are fooled by the hype and technobabble that the Quart name carries. Ear fatigue happens fairly easily, especially if there are alot of strings or brass instruments involved. Also, "S" sounds are quite bright even when tuned down with a parametric eq. Too much of a peak at 17khz.

In my old setup, if anyone had Quart speakers and were bragging about how they were "the best in existence", (and if they had a fairly good character) I'd invite them to listen to a REAL system. They usually ask me why their car doesn't sound as good and I would reply "Because you're running Quarts".

I'd still recommend the stock locations for the speakers, no kick panels as this has a "frowning" effect on the soundstage. Stock tweet locations are at eyelevel and that's where you would want the staging anyways!

Percy

retrodrive

no kickpanels?!

Its all about how you set them up and how much time you spend finding a sweetspot. I mean 2way set is fairly easy to adjust and even some pros use it, but from all the installs I have heard, kickpanels never proved themselves unworthy if properly adjusted. My friend had his Rainbows Refs in his doors at first and they sounded like no other speaker and I thought with current technology nothing can sound better. When he moved them to his kicks as midbases (6,5 and fast anough...wow) the improvement was drastic.

Percy

retro,

I still have yet to hear a good kickpanel setup. Would have loved to hear the Dynaudio demo vehicle...Chevy S-10 with lots of goodies. They spent weeks going for a sweetspot and from all the reviews I've read, they did it right. McIntosh's demo vehicle (bmw 3 series) also had kickpanels but the spectral balance SUCKED and so did the staging. Mc speakers were a bit on the dull side and lacking lots of detail and neutrality. After the guys at United Audio listened to the McIntosh demo vehicle, they hopped into mine. Their remarks after the audition..."This is how it should be done."

All the Mc rep said to me was that their 3 series needed retuning. He never bothered to even touch the tuning as there was another soundoff event in where the 3 series was there. Sounded the same...crappy.

I'm pretty sure if done right that kickpanels will sound incredible...it's just that I haven't heard of a demo or any vehicle that would meet my criteria. Classic frowning soundstage with the Mc demo vehicle.

Percy