Percy

blownis200,

You really don't need 2 seperate LLC's for the speakers, that is, one for the front right and one for the front left channel. PAC makes 2 channel LLC's so you can pair up the fronts with one LLC and the rears with another LLC. In a previous post you mentioned "good SQ" and then in a more recent post you mentioned "perfect SQ". The previous goal is attainable with some decent components and electronics. The latter goal I haven't even reached yet, but it's close. But you'll need the ability to read and interpret schematics, be good with interpreting data sheets (slew rate, power supply tollerance, ac ripple, package type, etc) and pick nothing BUT the top end speakers, electronics, etc. and mod the heck out of them. You'll require good soldering skills as well as the knack for disassembly and reassembly for some precision components. That's the only way you're going to even have a chance with "perfect SQ", otherwise you won't have a prayer with the stuff that's out there for the autosound market.

Focals are good for the "good sq" level. You won't reach the "perfect SQ" with these but you will have a very good chance if you use Dynaudio speakers. Very low 2nd and 3rd level harmonics as well as intermodulation distortion. These are by far the most neutral that I've ever heard and I've listened to MANY. Infinity Kappa's with EMITS, Infinity Renaissance 90 EMIM midranges, Infinity Epsilon L-EMIM midbass, Boston Acoustics, Pioneer, a/d/s/, Diamond Audio HEX, Sony XES components, and the most overhyped, MB Quart. The Dyns blow them all out of the water and not by a small margin either.

As for running the LLC's, just take the wires from the speaker and route them directly to the LLC. If you're using the two channel version (highly recommended) then just take some additional speaker wire and then run them through each LLC. After the LLC, run them to the amp. Be sure to have all your level adjustments on MINIMUM sensitivity as you don't want to overpower you speakers on initial powerup or the first listen. Also, be sure you have the power going to the amps (it's good to have power!) and the output of the amps to each speaker. Don't forget the crossovers!

Are you sure you want to go after the "perfect SQ" goal? That's a big one and you'll have to sort through alot of hype and marketing BS. Look beyond the glossy pages, the fancy ads and look for the truth. Forget about the technobabble hype and the "14 years running as the most popular speaker" or "Grade 1 titanium...only the best" or "more (place brand here) amps were at the IASCA soundoffs than any other amp". You'll also have to look at the specs with a certain amount of suspicion as most manufacturers other than Dynaudio (for speakers) and McIntosh (for amps) will not list the entire story. For speakers they will list a (using MBQ 218.03) 40-28khz rating but that's very over rated. Also they won't show the MLSSA (actual resonance/energy disappated, energy stored) but rather rely on some unspecified way of measuring their frequency response. Also they won't show the 2nd, 3rd or IM distortions. Only one company that I know of does...Dynaudio. They don't have anything to hide but the other guys do.

The guys on the board that have been here a while already know what type of system I have. Majorly overkill. Enough in components and mods alone to buy a nice twin turbo mod with plenty of cash left over or a down payment on a GS430/LS430. The only way I'll reach near perfect SQ (in my ears) is if I'm using 7k$ interconnects (Transparent Audio Reference XL's) and Krell Full Power Balanced transformers and their associated circuitry. Other than that, I'd still rate it as close to perfect as I can get. Unless I sink in another 30 grand in interconnects/wires from Transparent Audio (again the Ref XL's) and 30 grand in Krell proprietary parts.

You sure you want a "Perfect SQ" system?

Percy

blownIS200

As for running the LLC's, just take the wires from the speaker and route them directly to the LLC. If you're using the two channel version (highly recommended) then just take some additional speaker wire and then run them through each LLC. After the LLC, run them to the amp. Be sure to have all your level adjustments on MINIMUM sensitivity as you don't want to overpower you speakers on initial powerup or the first listen. Also, be sure you have the power going to the amps (it's good to have power!) and the output of the amps to each speaker. Don't forget the crossovers!

Thanks Percy,well i think for the time being its just gonna have to be good SQ

I will look into the Dynaudio stuff im sure we can get it here in europe aswell as the Macintosh stuff, i spent £3000 on my old cars system($4410),but now the wife is watching the bank account!

can you just clarify the LLC thing,is it better to join the LLC as close to the point that they leave the head unit then re wire the car from there to the amps?
and the additional spk wire,run them Through each LLC,thats the bit thats throwing me.

so how many amps would YOU recomend i run in this set up,im assuming that it would be a 4ch for the mid/highs,then two bridged to power the subs.or 2 ch for the mid/highs and a bridged amp to run the kickers(which i assume i could take a signal from the other amp

i thank you again for this VERY good info................mat c

Percy

Actually it's better to tap off the actual speaker wires themselves, at the speakers and not at the head unit. Reason being is the head unit only has left/right line level outputs with no fader. One set of outputs will work for fm/am/tape only and the other set is for cd only. Just tap off the actual speakers themselves when running the LLC's. You'll need additional speaker wire for both ways...from speaker to LLC and from LLC to amp.

Recommended channels...five. Two for the front (left/right), two for the back (also left/right) and one for the sub. That's all you'll really need unless you want to get rid of the rear speakers which some competitors will do. I wouldn't recommend it though as you can do some neat tricks with polarity and phasing to sound better, but that's a topic for later discussion.

Percy

blownIS200

thanks Percy,i'll let you know how it goes,then we can see about the phaseing

cheers,i will be straight down the shop 2morrow.

blownIS200

Hello again Percy ,
well i spoke to my local shop,not really much help,trying to push his stock,however it looks like i may have to purchase direct.

what Dynadio speakers do you recomend,for the front and rear(i am assuming in the rear that i do away with the factory spk grills,mounts etc,possibly MDF mounts/spacer)

trying to find Macintosh stuff is proving almost impossible(i ended up on Clarions site?)

however i can get here in Germany a Brax platinum 6channel amp(limited edition) for $4165,not sure what you rate Brax at but ive used there stuff before and been impressed,

any way if you can give me the amp type from Macintosh i will try to hunt it down,if not i'll go straight to the manufacturere

i thank you again for your valued help and assistance

mat

Percy

Mat,

Try Peter Lufrano at http://www.theautophile.com He can usually get some good pricing. I'm not sure if Brad at Woodyselectronics has them or not. It's been a while since I've last chatted with them.

You'll need MW160's for the front and rears. Can't go with the MW170's since their mounting depth is a bit too deep for the front doors when the windows are down. The magnets will hit the window on the MW170's.

For the front's I would recommend a System 240 MKII (7 inch midwoofer (MW160)/1 inch tweeter (MD100)/crossover) while the rears will only need a pair of MW160s. You can get these behind the stock grilles. For the fronts you'll need a baffle board (a board cut to the general shape of the stock speaker housing) and a 1 inch deep 7 inch diameter spacer ring. Metra carries these but I think they say it's for a 6.5 inch midwoofer. They'll work out. Now for the tweeter, you'll have to take these completely out of the housing so the magnet and upper assembly are intact. You'll also have to desolder the tinsel leads from the stock external leads. Then with a bit of adhesive (I'm using industrial strength velcro/adhesive with no problems) you can position them behind the stock grilles. They're so stealth looking that nobody will even notice, except for the sound quality.

McIntosh can be found at http://www.mcintoshlabs.com They're a bit hard to get unless someone is selling them off. Usually a waiting list but their quality has been outstanding so far.

Brax is nice stuff but I haven't read any reviews or aticles on any of their amps. Their stiffening caps are complete overkill though!

McIntosh won't sell directly, though you could try Peter Lufrano on this also. He tends to like the Genesis amps. Good guy with a good ear.

Good luck with the installation!

Percy