Calling "headunit" Re: Alpine F#1 Status (prelim audition)
10-22-01, 05:24 PM
#1
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Thread Starter
Calling "headunit" Re: Alpine F#1 Status (prelim audition)
Hi Guys!
Just had a chance to listen to the F#1 Status at a dealer. ABT in Morton Grove, Illinois has these in stock and one on the demo board. The demo board was cool looking, highlighting the sleek look of the F#1. On the upper section of the demo board were 3 MB Quart 6.5 inch components which looked like the RSD216's. Not Q series but not their entry level either. One stereo pair and one center channel all bunched up together in about 2 1/2 feet of area. This would not be good for a demo since the speakers are too close together for any real stereo imaging.
The F#1 was already powered and warmed up, blue lights glowing with the Biolite (tm) display active. Upon first inspection, the CDA7990 was inviting, especially the aluminum volume control ****. Unlike earlier models with the rotary control, this one actually has some good damping and resistance when turned. No audible clicking like those found on the TDA7558's and earlier rotary controls, or for that matter, the Sony C90. Some may find the control **** a bit too stiff to turn. Purely subjective.
The control buttons on the CDA7990 felt ok...I would have expected better tactile feedback or a more damped feedback. In any case, they felt like the cheap entry level buttons found on much lesser Alpine products. C'mon Alpine...this is NOT the unit for entry level parts.
Appearance wise, the 7990 looked nice. Not McIntosh-class style but then not many companies can get away with the retro look. The aluminum brushed face on the 7990...a nice touch.
The PXA display unit was mounted below the CDA7990, probably to simulate how it would look in a double din opening common in many foreign cars. Slick looking but more comments on it's function and response later.
Looking down further was the PXAH900. The processor/crossover with several indicator lights. Dolby Digital (5.1), Dolby Pro Logic, HDCD, DTS, MPEG. There weren't any control *****, buttons, etc to this unit. Everything is done via software through a PC serial (RS232) port.
The remote control for the PXAH900 was further down on the F#1 display stack. It's an IR remote (or so the salesperson tells me) imbedded and locked within the display itself. Pressing the buttons yielded no response due to the blocking of the IR transmitter. Tactile feel of the buttons are questionable. There is a subtle click but the quality of the parts leave me wondering it's durability. Will the painted marking wear/scratch off quickly due to use? How will the buttons hold up? Will they crack due to the severe enviroment of the car? Time will tell. Recommendation to Alpine and it's designers...use some precision switches with nice tactile feedback. I sense some more cost cutting on Alpines part here.
Appearance wise the controller is nicely laid out, though the small writing/labels may be hard to see. I didn't get a chance to see whether or not there was a backlight to the remote, but if it did, it would be a nice feature. For those that end up tuning in semi dark conditions this would be a great help.
Listening session, finally!
I loaded up my version (DVD transfer) of Eagles, Hell Freezes over. First track, Hotel California. The CD mechanism was acceptable, gently taking in the CD, but the motor sounded semi-rough. Definitly NOT McIntosh MX406 or Clarion DRX 9255 ... those things are silky smooth and extremely refined when it comes to transports.
The first things you hear are the audience cheers. A good test for midrange and some treble response. "For the record, we never broke up, we just took a 14 year vacation". Glenn Frey.
Not surprisingly, the unit was NOT tuned at all! It seems like all the settings were either flat or just fudged enough to produce some sort of response! Everything sounded LEAN and NASAL. Treble was overbumped and the titanium tweets didn't help any. This isn't starting to be a good review for the sound quality, not on any fault of Alpine.
After listening to the drums hit (or lack of...no sub was connected!) I swapped out CD's. It was clear that any reference music I would put in would result in a non favorable output. Just for kicks and grins I dropped in Sarah McLachlins "Mirrorball", another DVD transfer. Bad mistake as female vocals made the problem sound worse. For the final test, I dropped in a HDCD encoded disc (Mindy McCready) Sure enough, the HDCD light glowed to indicate that the disc was HDCD encoded. At times like this I sure wish I had the original DVD discs to Eagles, Hell Freezes Over and Sarah McLachlin's Mirrorball. Would have made for an interesting listen if the system was tuned out.
Speaking of displays, I noticed that the PXA display wasn't in "real time", that is, when the music was playing, the audio spectrum graph didn't respond immediately. Approximately 1/2 a second behind. This got annoying really quick. I didn't see any settings to change the response time so I left it alone.
The amp. MRVF409. 2,3 or 4 channel amp, 40watts into 4 channels, 4 ohms. 0.08% distortion. S/N ratio 100db, at rated power 100dbA, doesn't mention if this is from 20-20k. 2ohm stereo bridged at .3 percent distortion. This is supposed to be a reference amp?!?! (Insert pic of McIntosh amp here...now that's a REFERENCE piece.)
While I couldn't listen to the overall sound quality, I listened for the dynamics. Even when a system is fair to poorly tuned, you can still pick out s/n ratio and channel seperation to some degree. All I can say is that the Alpine F#1 Status was excellent in both respects. Though there still was this "clinical" sound which wasn't from the tuning. With most high end home audio gear you'll notice that (with Krell and Levinson equipment especially) everything sounds liquid, at ease and flowing. I didn't get that impression with this setup, and the last Krell that I listened to was poorly matched and setup, though the liquidness, and overall ease were still there to a very large degree. Large speakers (Revel), small room (10 ft by 8 ft), and generic "zip cord" cables all make for an unhappy combo.
Summary...
Pros
24 bit!
Digital EQ and Parametric
Excellent signal to noise ratio
Excellent Channel sep
HDCD! (finally!)
DTS
Pro Logic
Nice brushed look for the 7990/PXAH900 display
Able to use as the PXAH900 as a stand alone unit.
CDA7990 should set a new standard in terms of CD head units (sound quality)....IF they change out the op amps!
110db s/n ratio from 20-20k! (PXAH900)
120db s/n ratio from 20-20k for CDA7990
31 band graphic eq for left, right, (front and rears) center and sub. 175 bands total! YIKES!
Or 10 band parametric. (about time!)
11 channel digital crossover. Selectable from 6, 12, 18, 24, 30 db/oct.
Sub control. Up to 15db boost!
Pre out voltage...5 volts.
Channel sep at 1k...110db. What is it for 20-20k?
Can be used as a stand alone unit. (PXAH900)
Cons
Software only available to dealers. Therefore rendering a 7k$ equipment stack pretty much useless for us normal consumers if we switch speakers or want to tune for RTA and SQ settings.
Cheap switches for 7990 and remote. Could be much better. Alpine, this is your reference piece, at least use some good parts!
Longevity of paint for remote?
Any backlighting for the remote? Sony's Z50 remote has this...and that's a reference piece!
EQ boost/cut. Only +/- 9db? XESZ50 has +/- 12db...McIntosh has +/- 15db.
No 72db/oct "brickwall" filter that XESZ50 has?
No tunability that XESZ50 has. Remember that the XESZ50 has the software built in, and it's at 1k$ more.
Cheapo analog output filters, aka op amps. 4558's have no place in a reference piece.
Verdict...a worthy try for Alpine. There's alot going for the system such as HDCD, DTS, Pro Logic and MP3 as well as 24 bit d/a's, but they have to fine tune (read..different op amps, make software available to end users and use higher quality parts) in order to earn the term "reference". Sony got it right in the XESP1 of 1991 and in their XESZ50 of 1997, at least in terms of processor and head unit. They didn't have HDCD, DTS, MPEG or Pro Logic back then for car audio.
Now for the big question...Does anyone have a fully tuned out Alpine F#1 Status that I can audition?
Headunit,
You wrote...
“5 cent surface mount generic 4558” opamps: really? Where? Not that I recall. I think there was a 5532 at the input which is used for navigation voice, so forgive us if “turn left at the light” doesn’t have quite as much depth and clarity as it might.
***I called up Alpine Tech Support and spoke with 2 techs, Frank and Renaldo. They can be reached through the 1800 Alpine 1 number. Just ask for tech support. First question that I asked them...what op amp does the F#1 status PXAH900 use on the input and outputs. Their answer...
JRC4558.
This info was from the schematic of the PXAH900.
Percy
Just had a chance to listen to the F#1 Status at a dealer. ABT in Morton Grove, Illinois has these in stock and one on the demo board. The demo board was cool looking, highlighting the sleek look of the F#1. On the upper section of the demo board were 3 MB Quart 6.5 inch components which looked like the RSD216's. Not Q series but not their entry level either. One stereo pair and one center channel all bunched up together in about 2 1/2 feet of area. This would not be good for a demo since the speakers are too close together for any real stereo imaging.
The F#1 was already powered and warmed up, blue lights glowing with the Biolite (tm) display active. Upon first inspection, the CDA7990 was inviting, especially the aluminum volume control ****. Unlike earlier models with the rotary control, this one actually has some good damping and resistance when turned. No audible clicking like those found on the TDA7558's and earlier rotary controls, or for that matter, the Sony C90. Some may find the control **** a bit too stiff to turn. Purely subjective.
The control buttons on the CDA7990 felt ok...I would have expected better tactile feedback or a more damped feedback. In any case, they felt like the cheap entry level buttons found on much lesser Alpine products. C'mon Alpine...this is NOT the unit for entry level parts.
Appearance wise, the 7990 looked nice. Not McIntosh-class style but then not many companies can get away with the retro look. The aluminum brushed face on the 7990...a nice touch.
The PXA display unit was mounted below the CDA7990, probably to simulate how it would look in a double din opening common in many foreign cars. Slick looking but more comments on it's function and response later.
Looking down further was the PXAH900. The processor/crossover with several indicator lights. Dolby Digital (5.1), Dolby Pro Logic, HDCD, DTS, MPEG. There weren't any control *****, buttons, etc to this unit. Everything is done via software through a PC serial (RS232) port.
The remote control for the PXAH900 was further down on the F#1 display stack. It's an IR remote (or so the salesperson tells me) imbedded and locked within the display itself. Pressing the buttons yielded no response due to the blocking of the IR transmitter. Tactile feel of the buttons are questionable. There is a subtle click but the quality of the parts leave me wondering it's durability. Will the painted marking wear/scratch off quickly due to use? How will the buttons hold up? Will they crack due to the severe enviroment of the car? Time will tell. Recommendation to Alpine and it's designers...use some precision switches with nice tactile feedback. I sense some more cost cutting on Alpines part here.
Appearance wise the controller is nicely laid out, though the small writing/labels may be hard to see. I didn't get a chance to see whether or not there was a backlight to the remote, but if it did, it would be a nice feature. For those that end up tuning in semi dark conditions this would be a great help.
Listening session, finally!
I loaded up my version (DVD transfer) of Eagles, Hell Freezes over. First track, Hotel California. The CD mechanism was acceptable, gently taking in the CD, but the motor sounded semi-rough. Definitly NOT McIntosh MX406 or Clarion DRX 9255 ... those things are silky smooth and extremely refined when it comes to transports.
The first things you hear are the audience cheers. A good test for midrange and some treble response. "For the record, we never broke up, we just took a 14 year vacation". Glenn Frey.
Not surprisingly, the unit was NOT tuned at all! It seems like all the settings were either flat or just fudged enough to produce some sort of response! Everything sounded LEAN and NASAL. Treble was overbumped and the titanium tweets didn't help any. This isn't starting to be a good review for the sound quality, not on any fault of Alpine.
After listening to the drums hit (or lack of...no sub was connected!) I swapped out CD's. It was clear that any reference music I would put in would result in a non favorable output. Just for kicks and grins I dropped in Sarah McLachlins "Mirrorball", another DVD transfer. Bad mistake as female vocals made the problem sound worse. For the final test, I dropped in a HDCD encoded disc (Mindy McCready) Sure enough, the HDCD light glowed to indicate that the disc was HDCD encoded. At times like this I sure wish I had the original DVD discs to Eagles, Hell Freezes Over and Sarah McLachlin's Mirrorball. Would have made for an interesting listen if the system was tuned out.
Speaking of displays, I noticed that the PXA display wasn't in "real time", that is, when the music was playing, the audio spectrum graph didn't respond immediately. Approximately 1/2 a second behind. This got annoying really quick. I didn't see any settings to change the response time so I left it alone.
The amp. MRVF409. 2,3 or 4 channel amp, 40watts into 4 channels, 4 ohms. 0.08% distortion. S/N ratio 100db, at rated power 100dbA, doesn't mention if this is from 20-20k. 2ohm stereo bridged at .3 percent distortion. This is supposed to be a reference amp?!?! (Insert pic of McIntosh amp here...now that's a REFERENCE piece.)
While I couldn't listen to the overall sound quality, I listened for the dynamics. Even when a system is fair to poorly tuned, you can still pick out s/n ratio and channel seperation to some degree. All I can say is that the Alpine F#1 Status was excellent in both respects. Though there still was this "clinical" sound which wasn't from the tuning. With most high end home audio gear you'll notice that (with Krell and Levinson equipment especially) everything sounds liquid, at ease and flowing. I didn't get that impression with this setup, and the last Krell that I listened to was poorly matched and setup, though the liquidness, and overall ease were still there to a very large degree. Large speakers (Revel), small room (10 ft by 8 ft), and generic "zip cord" cables all make for an unhappy combo.
Summary...
Pros
24 bit!
Digital EQ and Parametric
Excellent signal to noise ratio
Excellent Channel sep
HDCD! (finally!)
DTS
Pro Logic
Nice brushed look for the 7990/PXAH900 display
Able to use as the PXAH900 as a stand alone unit.
CDA7990 should set a new standard in terms of CD head units (sound quality)....IF they change out the op amps!
110db s/n ratio from 20-20k! (PXAH900)
120db s/n ratio from 20-20k for CDA7990
31 band graphic eq for left, right, (front and rears) center and sub. 175 bands total! YIKES!
Or 10 band parametric. (about time!)
11 channel digital crossover. Selectable from 6, 12, 18, 24, 30 db/oct.
Sub control. Up to 15db boost!
Pre out voltage...5 volts.
Channel sep at 1k...110db. What is it for 20-20k?
Can be used as a stand alone unit. (PXAH900)
Cons
Software only available to dealers. Therefore rendering a 7k$ equipment stack pretty much useless for us normal consumers if we switch speakers or want to tune for RTA and SQ settings.
Cheap switches for 7990 and remote. Could be much better. Alpine, this is your reference piece, at least use some good parts!
Longevity of paint for remote?
Any backlighting for the remote? Sony's Z50 remote has this...and that's a reference piece!
EQ boost/cut. Only +/- 9db? XESZ50 has +/- 12db...McIntosh has +/- 15db.
No 72db/oct "brickwall" filter that XESZ50 has?
No tunability that XESZ50 has. Remember that the XESZ50 has the software built in, and it's at 1k$ more.
Cheapo analog output filters, aka op amps. 4558's have no place in a reference piece.
Verdict...a worthy try for Alpine. There's alot going for the system such as HDCD, DTS, Pro Logic and MP3 as well as 24 bit d/a's, but they have to fine tune (read..different op amps, make software available to end users and use higher quality parts) in order to earn the term "reference". Sony got it right in the XESP1 of 1991 and in their XESZ50 of 1997, at least in terms of processor and head unit. They didn't have HDCD, DTS, MPEG or Pro Logic back then for car audio.
Now for the big question...Does anyone have a fully tuned out Alpine F#1 Status that I can audition?
Headunit,
You wrote...
“5 cent surface mount generic 4558” opamps: really? Where? Not that I recall. I think there was a 5532 at the input which is used for navigation voice, so forgive us if “turn left at the light” doesn’t have quite as much depth and clarity as it might.
***I called up Alpine Tech Support and spoke with 2 techs, Frank and Renaldo. They can be reached through the 1800 Alpine 1 number. Just ask for tech support. First question that I asked them...what op amp does the F#1 status PXAH900 use on the input and outputs. Their answer...
JRC4558.
This info was from the schematic of the PXAH900.
Percy
10-23-01, 03:38 AM
#3
Search Function Inc.
I am not sure if they still have it, but one of the shops here had the demo car with F1S in it. I had a chance to listen to it, but had no time to play around with it much. Sounded very good, but not u to par with many other system Ive heard.
P.S. The install was perfect, there is no question about that. That shop is the best one in SD as far as car audio goes.
P.S. The install was perfect, there is no question about that. That shop is the best one in SD as far as car audio goes.
10-24-01, 07:05 AM
#5
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Thread Starter
The shop that I had listened the F#1 to was discounting the price. Usually, 1/2 of retail is fair. Electronics rarely get more than that due to the nature of the item.
Percy
Percy
i accept paypal if anyone is wondering.
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