jefthim

I recently gutted my stock sytem and repalced my headuint with a Kenwood DPX301, front speakers with 6.5 Focal V1 seprates, rear 6.5 alpine s-series 2-way, stock sub, and powered by alpine mrp- f320(4X40+1X120). I have been trying to tune my system, but I think I am going to go deaf soon if I cant get it the way I want. Mid-bass and mid voice are just awesome...BUT vocals sound recessed. It almost sounds like the 6.5s in the pods cause some reverb and or mid-voice and mid-bass are amplified by the pods. To put it another way...it sounds like the drums and the horns and guitars are up front and the singer is behind being drowned out. I spoke to the local Custom shop and thy told me the focals sound best when mounted into free air doors, unlike our cars with pods. I told them that I had great mid-voice and mid bass and my vocals didnt come out very much. They said "hmmmm" normaly people that had the v1s said the vocals were great and lacked mid bass and mid voice.
My ears have been ringing for over a week because I have been turning the sound up just to hear the vocals and the mid voice have been POUNDING my ears. Especially with the windows up. I have worked with car stereo in other cars quite a bit, but have never had this problem. Has anyone else experienced the same problem? Is this why Lexus used 4" speakers instead of 6.5s? Any help or suggestions are appriciated.

88supramki

don't use the pods. take them out and trace a plate out of MDF and use that instead. You will get a lot better quality sound as opposed to using the stock pods.



If you had X-Ray vision you would be able to see the MDF plate that I made to mount my Utopias to

MJHSC400

Nice install man!

How much did those utopia's run you, and how do you like the result??

Take a look at my audio site and you'll see some custom work I did -- I built a stellar 3 way setup using the old skool MB Referenz 4" mids with some cadence 6.75's (aluminum cone mid-bass) and a 30mm silk dome Cadence tweet from their newer 3" VC lineup--

I have not only built the very best sounding setup I've ever heard for $1000 (includes an Eclipse 8443, MTX 4200x, 1500dx (kilowatt monoblock running a Kappa Perfect 12.1), boston pro neo coax's in the rear, and a Audio control xover splitting my 4" mids at 350hz and up, and the cadence 6.75's down from there at 18db/octave--) That's right, I did all that for $1000 --
I did the pods custom glass by hand too -- It'll make your ears bleed --


I have not been able to blow these tweets for anything, which may be partly due to the 8v preout and 125db s/n ratio of the amp, but I'm amazed as I've never had tweets last long for me....

88supramki

Thank you


I got the Utopia on a smokin deal from a previous customer who wrecked his car. 2 sets for $500

Personally I love them, I'm still waiting to do my rear deck cover to accomodate my second set of Utopias

jefthim

I did as you suggested and it did improve sound quality, but I still get more vocals from my rear speakers than the front. Did I need to remove the plastic behind the pods also? Should I look at more of a high-end set like the K2Ps to achive the imaging from the front?

Clean Install BTW!!

88supramki

I removed ALL of the clear plastic from the door when doing my dynamat job, I then made a little cover behind the speaker so that water would not be able to drip into the speaker.

K2P's are great speakers but you're gonna need to step up your amplifier to run them at the full potential.

If you're getting too much from your rears, just adjust them more towards the front. Think of it like home audio, most of the audio comes at you from the front the rears should be mainly for filler.

If you do decide to step it up to the K2Ps you could even remove your rears, like I have at the moment.

MJHSC400

That is a smokin deal--

I took my time on my setup, and ended up getting the Audiocontrol 2xs 2way 18db/oct xover for like $25 -- a pair of the old school MB Quart referenz 4" mids from the flagship 3 way setup (when referenz was the top line) -- someones car was broken into and the thief left the mids-- but took the tweets and 6.5's -- so I picked them up for $40 -- (pair -- ) -- I then picked up a set of cadence's cwm6 components-- which use a good midbass and xover, but a weak tweet-- $80 shipped-- (surplus item, usually $150) -- I immediately smoked the original tweets, and they sent me some 30mm silk tweets from the newer 3" voice coil line (like dls and morel) -- (free upgrade!!) I have yet to blow the 30mm's, and they're smooth as can be-- I'm playing the aluminum 6.75's 350hz and down, and splitting the 350hz and up signal with the cwm6 xover-- which feeds the tweets and 4" mids-- My mid-bass are on seperate channels-- getting 75w each-- and the mid/tweet set is getting the other 2 channels from an MTX 4200x -- (125db s/n ratio, 500+ damping factor, mil. spec components in the circuitry) -- I've also got a kappa perfect 12.1 on a MTX 1500dx, old school amp, class d, small, 950w rms, @ .5 thd-- $125 shipped, new-- (I'm running it 4ohm for about 500 rms breathin easy) -- My head unit is an eclipse 8433 I think, with the built in 24db/oct xovers for hi, mid, and low channels, 8v preout, 10 band parametric eq, etc, etc, $150 mint condition (I don't even use pro-mode-- it's way out there beyond what i really need) ....

I want to do the same 3 way in the SC, but it looks difficult to squeeze the 4" in undetected--

jefthim

Can you explain more about your cover to stop the dripping?

Yes, I am trying to get my staging correct in my car so I hear more sound and vocal from the front, but I still have a drastic difference in sound from my fronts to backs. The vocals are clear and projected with my alpines, but the vocals still sound recessed from my Focals. I still hear more drums and guitar/ midbass from the fronts. If I leave the fade where it is, then I don't need as much volume to hear the vocals. If I fade front then imaging is better but I lose some clarity.

My ears have been ringing for over a week and would like them to stop. I am not really looking to blow my ears off anymore than I already have. I just can't understand why its so hard to get the front speakers to sound as clean as the rear ones....

88supramki

i took some dynamat and made sort of a shade or cover i guess you would call it for the utopias so that they're not exposed to any elements that would possibly drip down the door.

Basically take a piece of dynamat or other material, and adhere it behind the speaker mount.

I would fade more towards the front and perhaps turn down the gain on the rears if you're getting too much out of your rears. maybe adjust your amp settings if your focals aren't that clear

also, how do you have your rears mounted? and do you have any sound deadening material done?

MJHSC400

Your Focal's handle [MUCH] more power than the alpines, and do it accurately and cleanly--

If you're using an Alpine coax in the rear vs. a focal component up front, there's your balance problem right there-- the sensitivity of the Focal is most likely 3db lower than the sensitivity of the alpines--

The focals are most likely very well damped, and play even and flat, but if you looked at the response curve of the alpines, they're peaky in the upper mids and high registers and will get very harsh with any real power, and are basically useless for anything more than rear fill (much less volume with 8k and up filtered out, maybe up to 10k if you want, but no tweets needed at all for rear fill) -- You don't want the inferior sq of the alpine interfering with the sweet quality Focal is known for.

Here's what you should do -- run a capacitor inline for a 6db xover from 10k or 8k and down-- this will solve your problem, and the alpine's tendency to be harsh will be neutralized-- You can find calculators online that will tell you the exact value capacitor you'll need at whatever frequency you choose--

FSUnoles

i read somewhere that if you want decent imaging in a couple that you shouldn't even install rear speakers and just keep your components up front is that correct cause im thinking of just installing 6.5 components up front and my sub in the trunk will that sounds good as far as imaging goes

88supramki

All I have in my car right now is front components.

I was doing some work at a friend's shop and was blasting my music for nearly 4 hours, no one believed that I only had front speakers in

FSUnoles

yea so in our car its best to put your $$ toward a good set of 6.5 components with plenty of power and dampening instead of rear speakers

88supramki

i think it sounds just fine with an awesome set of front speakers.

I'm only adding the rears because: 1. I got them for DIRT cheap, 2. I want it INSANELY loud and clear

jefthim

The rears were not that big of a deal to me. There are 4 - 8mm bolts that hold in the rear speaker housings. There was some type of felt and screen to protect the stock speaker. I removed that with a gasket scraper. The removal of the stock 4" is pretty easy. I then had to modify the baskets and cut out the area to hold in the 4" speaker. I used a jig-saw...it wasn’t the cleanest cuts, but the plastic had a tendency to melt as the blade cut through. If I had air tools, I’m sure I could have found something better to use. Anyway, once I had the extra plastic removed I used the metal mounting rings that came with my speakers and mounted the rings first. The rings were very close to the same size as the basket, but they were only off by a hair. The lined up better that way, than without the rings. I dropped my wires through and screwed the speaker to the ring. I was a little worried about clearance with the rear deck cover, but I didn’t have any. And no, I have not added any additional sound deadening.

I am still not happy with how things have turned out so far. I have faded to the front all the way to where the rear speakers don’t play, so all I have is the front components and sub. My ears still tend to hurt when I crank it up. My Kenwood maxes out at 35 and I have been turning it up to 25-27-30 depending on the music to hear the vocals. I am starting to wonder if it’s more of an air pressure problem as a result of the cabin be so air tight and the amount of air being moved by the speakers that is causing my ears to hurt. Anyway...I’m not sure what to do anymore without gutting it and starting over with different speakers, and possible another head unit.