MJHSC400

You think he's leaning toward the JL?? I think he's leaning toward the ID --

Who knows what the guy's leaning toward-- I just like to see people save space and money to do the same thing or more.. That's all.

I've always been a fan of ORIGINALITY, which steers away from getting exactly what all your friends have-- and it will quite probably make them all say "wow dude, that's just one sub?? I'm gettin one of those..." --

MJHSC400

Here's a thought -- If you wanna get like 4 of those 1000/1's to power it --
Behold-- The new Z series from Digital Designs with a highly unstable Neo magnet derivation previously used in particle acceleration (if I remember correctly) --


One more beauty from DD -- The 9100

noop

The 1000/1 is good enough for those w6's you want to use.

MJHSC400

I don't know why I was telling this guy about an amp when he has a 1000/1 --

hmm-- Yeah man-- it's more than good enough for most anything you want to do...

It must've been another thread where someone was asking about an amp or something....

Robert_J

Nice DD's. (That's the first time I've said that to a man ) I've never heard one but I have have read great reviews about everything built by Resonance, Inc. including the original subs for Elemental Designs.

I too like to use the non-mainstream brands. Here's a portion of my collection:

• Lambda Acoustics - A pair of 10's with poly and paper cones. Both have the copper faraday motors. Hand built by a guy named Nick in Florida. Great reviews about their sound quality from the DIY community but Nick got a real job and sold his remaining parts inventory to John J. of Stryke/AE Speakers.
• Blueprint - I have three of the 10" 01 series and one 12" 01 series subs. I just found out from David Moore (VP of Resonant Engineering) that this series also uses Adire's XBL^2 motor technology. These were built by Destijl Engineering.
• Ascendant Audio - I have a pair of Atlas 12's. Great sound quality subs that use XBL^2 technology. Built by Destijl Engineering.
• Resonant Engineering - I've only used their RE line but they sound great for the cheapest line. Built by Destijl Engineering.
• Stryke Audio/AE Speakers - I've got three of their AV series (one MKI and a pair of MKII's) that were built on the TC2+ motor. I got them when there were still sourced from TC Sounds.
• Elemental Designs - I've had both the flat cone A (TC9 motor) and O (TC2+ motor) series. Both were built by TC Sounds.
• Soundsplinter - I've had the 12" RL-p (TC9 motor) built by TC Sounds.
• TC Sounds - I had four 15's (TC2 motor) for my home theater that were hand built by Stephen Ponte before he went to Stimpson/Vodhanel Sound. I got a call from Heather yesterday that my TC-3000's should be shipped today.
• Adire Audio - I've had a pair of Shiva MKIII's and currently have a VP-12. These were built by Eminence.

I'm fascinated by the engineering that goes into a sub. Also by the different philosophies that guys like Thilo Stompler, Stephen Ponte, Deon Bearden, Dan Wiggins and Scott Atwell have behind their designs.

To keep my rambling post on topic, I've looked at JL just never bought one. I feel I can get equal or better performance from other manufacturers. On the other hand, if I lived in FL, I'd definitely sign up for the tour of the offices and factory.

-Robert

MJHSC400

LOL--

This reminds me of a guy I used to ride motorcycles with-- Roy-- We would all crack on him cuz he refused to jump things...

Anyhow, one day I showed up at his house and he has like 47 bookshelf speakers and 20 receivers all connected at once--

He was like, "What's up man, check out what I just got.." --

Ok, so it's a little different--- I thought it was funny though..

DD is a ridiculously eccenctric company that does one thing better possibly than anyone else on the planet. The build unbelievably loud subs. I've heard of a single 12 9100 series doing 150's on the dash officialy -- Most guys that run them run several amps per sub. I think it's crazy personally--

The shiva's are known to be some very good subs when used in a TL "pipe" -- 8' tall 12" pvc sched. 80 pipe-- with some polyfill (calculated weight to make the sub think it's in a 10' line instead of 8' )

I agree with you man-- I prefer to stay away from mainstream, as there's too many people's salaries riding on the mainstream brands and they're just not pushing the envelope quite like the underground companies more interested in setting records and developing the best products on earth no holds barred. --

MJHSC400

What about this ugly mother of a beast right here from TC sounds??? This sucker has a 30mm XMAX!!??? Holy mother of balogna-- For only $335 shipped-- Wow- I think I need one-- Maybe I should dedicate a 2" thick lexan box project to one of these suckers---

Robert_J

I'll let you know on Thursday when my two 15's are delivered.

These are going in my home theater though. Each one is going into a 4cf sealed box powered by a Behringer EP-2500 (2,400w pro amp). Another guy at the TC forums has the same setup using 3 of these and can easily hit 8 hz at 120db.

If these don't work, I'm also talking with Scott Atwell of Fi Car Audio about four custom 18's using neo motors.

-Robert

tom44vip

for DevJ the OP...
If you like JL, go for them. Ask your friends for more information on their subs, and if that's what you're looking for, go for it. Two W6's will sound very loud themselves, esp on a 1000/1 amplifier. I've always been a fan of JL and I've never had any problems with any of their products. Personally, I'd stick with the JL's because they have a great reputation and sound excellent when you're not looking for mirror-shaking bass.

You never got an answer to this question, but you should be fine with your nav-system you got in there. Most of the time, the installer will hook everything up to meet your needs. So you should be fine with that. On a second note, when you do end up installing subwoofers, you'll realize that's only half the equation and You might start looking into buying new speakers to keep up with your new bass. In this case, you'll want to upgrade to an aftermarket HU that supports navi.

Hope this helps, and whatever you do end up getting you'll still love it.

MJHSC400

In all realistic honesty--

I have only 1 kappa perfect 12.1-- It is too loud for my personal taste-- just one in a sealed with 500 rms--

A pair of w6's will be an easy bet -- they will no doubt get ugly loud and shake your car apart-- They also will sound very good doing it without question....

I guess I just like to explore other options--

You may not be the kind of guy that wants to build his own enclosure if you actually did get a TC-3000 12" -- which would be a sweet sub-- if they had any in stock-- I'm drooling over the TC1000 with 24mm xmax -- that's a big jump over the 14mm my perfect has-- I can't imagine a sub nearly twice as loud while possibly even being cleaner than a perfect ..(if that's possible??)..

I'm sure you could get a nice pre-fab or even a custom enclosure for whatever you do choose--

I honestly had never heard of TC before this-- but now that I've seen what they've got and read reviews, they would be my first choice next sub-- once I blow this perfect enough times and have to keep sending it off under warranty--

Good luck with your search, and post up the results with what you get--

Robert J. -- Did you see that XXX from RE?? Holy mother of spaghetti!! 54mm one way xmax--

Robert_J

The backorders from the sale were built and shipped this past week. Look for the web site to be updated soon.

The only real difference between my three Stryke subs and the TC-1000 is the cone. The TC version has a single piece aluminum cone. Mine have have a two piece cone with a concave aluminum dust cap. Last night when watching the movie "Cars", my niece said "Wow. Did you feel that?" every time a bass heavy scene came up. This is a single AV MK 12 in a 1.2cf box, powered by a 275 watt plate amp. I'm going to clone these with my other two AV 12's. Edit - I found some nice pictures of the 15" TC-1000 at the bottom of this thread. Drool away!!!

That's because they were primarily an OEM company. Have you heard of Eclipse? Have you heard of the German company Ground Zero? Elemental Designs flat cone subs? Soundspinter? And these are just the companies that either don't mind being associated with an OEM or the information has leaked out. There are dozens that don't want people knowing who built their product. The sub in the $5,000 Aerial Acoustics is based on the TC-9 motor. The $28,000 Krell Master Reference Subwoofer has a pair of 15" TC-9 based subs in it. You know you make a good product when it is used in audiophile grade systems.

Even though I linked to SVS, I didn't say that TC supplied them. The still supply the current Ultra driver until the in-house model is released. (That basket is a TC Sounds exclusive) They used to supply the driver in the Plus line. It's now available from TC in the db-500 series. The driver for the PC series was sourced from Destijl Engineering. SVS has now started designing and building drivers in-house. To do this, they hired Stephen Ponte who was a transducer engineer at TC Sounds.

I've seen it on their site and read a number of reviews. There's a guy in town that is sponsored by RE for SPL events. I need to go visit and see these in person. I really don't want to since they are WAY out of my price range.

A little bit of trivia - The RE subs were designed by Scott Atwell at Destijl Engineering. Scott sold his part of RE and the Destijl Engineering build house to the owner of US amps. Scott now has a new build house and line of subs called Fi Car Audio. Scott will also be building subs for Ascendant Audio. Both of those companies provide excellent value for the money.

-Robert

MJHSC400

Sorry DevJ -- This thread has officially been hijacked and designated the subwoofer discussion thread--

MJHSC400

Here's the Soundsplinter Supreme 12" -- 1000rms -- 39mm XMAX (unreal excursion) (based on TC's motor design) -- $500 + s/h



As quoted from the Acoustic Visions website: Here's a soundsplinter SD12 $155 plus shipping-- ($28)

19mm xmax and looks to have a carbon fiber/glass composite cone and a reasonably light moving mass-- Could make for one loud and clean sub--

Robert_J

That's not a Soundsplinter sub. It's from Creative Sound Solutions. There are no real details on it and since it doesn't say "Made in the USA", I can rule out my favorite build houses. Not that's it's a P.O.S. either. CSS and Kyle from Acoustic-Visions wouldn't sell it if it wasn't a high quality product. Just a guess on my part but it is probably built by Peerless India. The same company that build npdang's DIYMA 12.

Just to give you some new subs to look at:
SS RP-p 18" - Mike from Soundsplinter listened to his customers and had this monster built by TC Sounds. The home infinite baffle users are crazy about this one. We haven't had anything like this since the Ascendant Audio Avalanche 18 and the Blueprint 1803.
Mach 5 Audio - These are some great value subs. Besides the subs listed on the site, he's working on an SPL 12" and an 18" high excursion model similar to the RL-p 18". To save on shipping, they can be ordered from Sound Solutions Audio.
ED 13Av.2 - The link takes you to Ben's comments on designing the sub. A few pictures have leaked out but nothing more until it is ready for production. It's a well thought out, high excursion, sound quality sub.


-Robert

MJHSC400

Man -- It looks to me that the engineering has finally leaked out into the mass market and they're all scrambling to design a larger xmax with really light and rigid cones/motors --- So that being the case, many companies that are old dogs are the leading partie's on the latest and greatest excursion limits, and others not as experienced in the manufacturing of subwoofers are on last years specs-- Which happen to be solid specs for making your hair and clothes move-- One thing about the perfect that most companies are doing now is building a very rigid cone structure-- Nowdays subs can play all the way out to full xmax without distorting, and even past the gap without single note sources (rap or rock) being audibly distorted when the sub sits in the trunk-- Just a little more engineering and you can stretch that xmax out and displace (twice) the stroke-- makes sense-- So now a 29mm xmax or even 39mm will do what a pair of 19mm xmax subs of the same size (mostly) if the moving mass isn't sacrificed for the extra mass in the structure--

With 28mm xmax-- we know this one'll get loud if you tell it to--


For $117 -- This one looks to be an overstock/ surplus kappa perfect cone-- The claimed 24mm xmax says the reading is 71% BL and 29% something else (non-linear outside the gap??) So I'm guessing it's got a 18mm linear xmax -


(they still have mass excess of the old perfects laying around) -- Perfects have been selling strong for 5 yrs since their inception at $300 each-- so they made a large amt. to meet the huge demand-- On the gray (non dealer) market you can still pick them up for $90 each--