installing JL w6s
03-22-07, 09:35 PM
#1
installing JL w6s
hey guys i'm going to buy 2 10in w6s and i was wondering what is the best amp to run the subs with?
Where should i place the subs to still have trunk space and sound good?
Also i'll be using the stock unit that has navigation, will it work well or should i replace it?
thanks so much for the help!
Where should i place the subs to still have trunk space and sound good?
Also i'll be using the stock unit that has navigation, will it work well or should i replace it?
thanks so much for the help!
03-22-07, 10:23 PM
#3
Lexus Test Driver
Forget the JL w6 -- the spl is like 85db-- they've been reviewed very poorly due to the very low sensitivity-- more of a tone generator than a wide bandwidth transducer (fancy wording for a good and versatile subwoofer)
An Image Dynamics IDMAX will smoke a JL 10w6 -- a single 12 IDMAX will run circles around two 10w6's -- while playing FAR more musically-- it's a FAR better sub.. Totally different category, for about the same price-- maybe even less-- We're talking a 93db efficiency versus an 85 db for the JL sub-- JL subs just suck up power and make it disappear--
Why buy two 10's when 1 12 will do nearly what 2 10's will-- ???? An IDMAX 12 will likely blow two 10w6's away and save you huge money while doing it.. Not to mention you just cut your amp load in half -- not that the IDMAX won't take the power, trust that it will-- it will just do WAY more with it--
There's more trunk space right there--
If you like the money I just saved you, and the trunk space-- that's cool--
I can save you some more money on an amp-- Look for an old school MTX 1500dx-- It will absolutely pound that 12w6 or a w7 -- Probably $200 can buy a mint condition 1500dx, maybe less--
This amp will make every bit as much CLEAN power pound for pound with a 1000/1-- you just won't have the variable ohm configuration the JL amp has-- but that's easy to get around, just get a dual 4 sub for the proper 2 ohm load-- 950w rms @ < .5% thd -- It will do more than that, but the distortion goes up a bit in the > 1000w range--
Just wondering, but for that kinda money, why not look into a Dynaudio polyglass 13" sub?????????
No need for a pair of those-- and it's in a class all by itself-- The JL won't even come close in terms of sq --
An Image Dynamics IDMAX will smoke a JL 10w6 -- a single 12 IDMAX will run circles around two 10w6's -- while playing FAR more musically-- it's a FAR better sub.. Totally different category, for about the same price-- maybe even less-- We're talking a 93db efficiency versus an 85 db for the JL sub-- JL subs just suck up power and make it disappear--
Why buy two 10's when 1 12 will do nearly what 2 10's will-- ???? An IDMAX 12 will likely blow two 10w6's away and save you huge money while doing it.. Not to mention you just cut your amp load in half -- not that the IDMAX won't take the power, trust that it will-- it will just do WAY more with it--
There's more trunk space right there--
If you like the money I just saved you, and the trunk space-- that's cool--
I can save you some more money on an amp-- Look for an old school MTX 1500dx-- It will absolutely pound that 12w6 or a w7 -- Probably $200 can buy a mint condition 1500dx, maybe less--
This amp will make every bit as much CLEAN power pound for pound with a 1000/1-- you just won't have the variable ohm configuration the JL amp has-- but that's easy to get around, just get a dual 4 sub for the proper 2 ohm load-- 950w rms @ < .5% thd -- It will do more than that, but the distortion goes up a bit in the > 1000w range--
Just wondering, but for that kinda money, why not look into a Dynaudio polyglass 13" sub?????????
No need for a pair of those-- and it's in a class all by itself-- The JL won't even come close in terms of sq --
03-23-07, 08:43 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
The IDMAX is more efficient --- efficiency means they are also more musical-- The reviews speak very negatively on the JL sub just using up tons of power and making a lot of heat and a little sound-- (unless you throw 1000w at it) --
The IDMAX is one of the cleanest and tightest subs out there today, not to mention it is capable of some nice spl numbers as well--
SO-- to sum it up again-- the ID subs are more efficient, cleaner, tighter, louder, and will both handle more power as well as surpass the JL subs output.
I beg to differ with you as anyone looking to install some massive subs like those is most likely looking for some all around output and sq in the mix--
I'm just trying to help a guy spend his money MUCH more effectively. MUCH.
The IDMAX is one of the cleanest and tightest subs out there today, not to mention it is capable of some nice spl numbers as well--
SO-- to sum it up again-- the ID subs are more efficient, cleaner, tighter, louder, and will both handle more power as well as surpass the JL subs output.
I beg to differ with you as anyone looking to install some massive subs like those is most likely looking for some all around output and sq in the mix--
I'm just trying to help a guy spend his money MUCH more effectively. MUCH.
03-23-07, 09:42 AM
#7
Lexus Champion
perhaps he has already spent it 
i understand that you are trying to help him out, however in the end it's going to come down to what he likes.....not you.
well what is YOUR personal experience with them? or are you going off what other people have said? is that not the same was what you are doing right now? I have a substantial amount of first hand experience with JL products and I think the W6s are very good woofers. There are LOTS of subwoofer companies out there, and there are a lot that MOST people don't know about, such as IDmax.
not trying to get in a war, just saying that people like what they like and who are you to tell them they're wrong for doing what they want to do.
i understand that you are trying to help him out, however in the end it's going to come down to what he likes.....not you.
The reviews speak very negatively on the JL sub just using up tons of power and making a lot of heat and a little sound-- (unless you throw 1000w at it)
not trying to get in a war, just saying that people like what they like and who are you to tell them they're wrong for doing what they want to do.
Last edited by 88supramki; 03-23-07 at 09:45 AM.
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03-23-07, 10:12 AM
#8
thanks for the the reply guys!
i'll have to look into the idmax subs you recommended. How much are they though? the two w6s that i can get my hands on are 700 new.
Most of my friends have had jl audio so i figured i would use the same since i was familar with the subs.
How much is that mtx audio amp?
Oh and using my stock headunit won't f-k up anything will it?
i'll have to look into the idmax subs you recommended. How much are they though? the two w6s that i can get my hands on are 700 new.
Most of my friends have had jl audio so i figured i would use the same since i was familar with the subs.
How much is that mtx audio amp?
Oh and using my stock headunit won't f-k up anything will it?
03-23-07, 10:34 AM
#9
Lexus Test Driver
MJHSC400 -
Man, your comments are wrong in many levels.
- how can you compare an IDmax to a W6? The W6 wasn't built to compete against the IDmax...If anything the W7 was built to go head to head against the W7, which one is better now? The W6 was built as an upper mid-line (for JL's standards) and the IDmax was built as a no compromise, no holds-bar, flag-ship woofer. I own an IDmax, and yes its a mighty impressive sub, but when you go around and make comments like "An Image Dynamics IDMAX will smoke a JL 10w6," its pretty discouraging to current owners of W6's who forked out big bucks for a W6's. I personally like both.
- I don't understand why you judge a subwoofer on sensitivity? There are many other factors that comes in when judging a sub's performance like: linear x-max, displacement (sd), resonant frequency (Hz) and so on. This all has to do with enclosure size and input power, which leads to the MOST important part of the subwoofer: the installation aspect <<<yes I said that I bold it you you won't miss it. Most subwoofers can potentially sound great, even entry level subs, whats more important is enclosure and input power.
- He already mentioned that he already owns an 1000/1, which is plenty for either set-up. However, as far as SQ, I've read reviews regarding the W6 and if I could recall they stated that it "was the best sounding sub that they reviewed" EVER. Thats a pretty BOLD statement considering they reviewed the IDmax years ago when it came out. Also, as far as SPL the the 2 10'w will have more cone area then the single 12" IDmax, which in terms of output should get louder. Noonan never made a comment about his bass preferences.
I'm not here to step on anyone's feet, but sometimes when i read comments like "An Image Dynamics IDMAX will smoke a JL 10w6," and the whole argument is based solely sensitivity/efficiency...its pretty weak, and more of a bias comment if anything else.
Man, your comments are wrong in many levels.
- how can you compare an IDmax to a W6? The W6 wasn't built to compete against the IDmax...If anything the W7 was built to go head to head against the W7, which one is better now? The W6 was built as an upper mid-line (for JL's standards) and the IDmax was built as a no compromise, no holds-bar, flag-ship woofer. I own an IDmax, and yes its a mighty impressive sub, but when you go around and make comments like "An Image Dynamics IDMAX will smoke a JL 10w6," its pretty discouraging to current owners of W6's who forked out big bucks for a W6's. I personally like both.
- I don't understand why you judge a subwoofer on sensitivity? There are many other factors that comes in when judging a sub's performance like: linear x-max, displacement (sd), resonant frequency (Hz) and so on. This all has to do with enclosure size and input power, which leads to the MOST important part of the subwoofer: the installation aspect <<<yes I said that I bold it you you won't miss it. Most subwoofers can potentially sound great, even entry level subs, whats more important is enclosure and input power.
- He already mentioned that he already owns an 1000/1, which is plenty for either set-up. However, as far as SQ, I've read reviews regarding the W6 and if I could recall they stated that it "was the best sounding sub that they reviewed" EVER. Thats a pretty BOLD statement considering they reviewed the IDmax years ago when it came out. Also, as far as SPL the the 2 10'w will have more cone area then the single 12" IDmax, which in terms of output should get louder. Noonan never made a comment about his bass preferences.
I'm not here to step on anyone's feet, but sometimes when i read comments like "An Image Dynamics IDMAX will smoke a JL 10w6," and the whole argument is based solely sensitivity/efficiency...its pretty weak, and more of a bias comment if anything else.
03-23-07, 12:16 PM
#10
Lexus Test Driver
:applaud:
Thanks for the kind words of guidance.
I had no idea the ENCLOSURE or VEHICLE had anything to do with the whole equation-- I thought he was just going to sit his subs in the trunk and expect them to sound good-- maybe they're for his bicycle????
It's fantastic that people are so knowledgeable--
I WAS basing my opinion on specifications-- AND, the idmax 12 will most likely be louder with the 1000/1 in the proper box vs. the two w6's -- it's more efficient-- FAR more efficient--
When a sub sounds as great as an IDMAX from a company as reputable as IMAGE DYNAMICS-- I tend to prefer it over a company like JL, who has never truly been a subwoofer pioneer in terms of sheer output and sq--
JL audio has always had my respect as one of the most well rounded companies for car audio on the planet-- BUT, I have more respect for Image D. as they have truly pioneered many things. The horn component set, the carbon fiber woofer, the best sq subs of their time (idq) -- they don't even build amps--
JL impedance switching amps are ahead of their time, and they're very good compared to any company out there.
I have personally owned 3 10w6's -- (the old school subs) -- and must say they are amazing woofers-- are there better ones for the money? Absolutely.
The IDMAX 12 will cost less, and outperform a pair of JL 10w6's and
I DON'T NEED TO AUDITION EITHER TO TELL YOU THAT
Now there's a statement that will start a flame war.
Flame on brotha, I've been there and done that.
I don't need to own both to decide-- 84db sensitivity vs. 94 db-- that's all I need to know--
You're accusing me of basing my opinion on solely the efficiency??? Come on man. Do you really think I'm that stupid??
Let's see--- 10w6 SD = 5^2 x 3.14 = ~75 in^2 with an 84~ db 1w/1m -- coupling factor and in car response brings the theoretical output to a response curve in the low 90 db's range at best (ported) -- 1000w ~ will bring the 87/88 db sensitivity to a theoretical 117/118 db @ 1000 w rms input -- add enclosure response that may be in the low 90's, maybe a little better, you will get around 125 to 130 db enclosure response (in-car) @1000w rms input--
IDMAX= 93db sensitivity-- enclosure response -- around 100 db in car response-- power handling nearly identical to a pair of w6's -- about 800 ~ 1000 rms-- an in car response at around 135 db should be achieved--
You're forgetting that regardless of the drivers combined SD, their combined sensitivity sets them back still around 7+ db -- so you'll still need theoretically 4 times the power (which will smoke the JL's long before they ever catch up) to match the output of the IDMAX--
You own one dude-- come on--
The BL of the IDMAX is less than the BL of the 10w6 with a much larger sd, plus a 24.9 mm XMAX -- with a 2.5" peak to peak motor excursion capability.
The math does it for me -- I'll bet the cost of an IDMAX 12 it will outperform the pair of JL's --
It's just a better engineered product.
I fully appreciate JL's engineering, please don't get me wrong, I just like to highlight the one's that should be highlighted.
Why did you buy an IDMAX???
Thanks for the kind words of guidance.
I had no idea the ENCLOSURE or VEHICLE had anything to do with the whole equation-- I thought he was just going to sit his subs in the trunk and expect them to sound good-- maybe they're for his bicycle????
It's fantastic that people are so knowledgeable--
I WAS basing my opinion on specifications-- AND, the idmax 12 will most likely be louder with the 1000/1 in the proper box vs. the two w6's -- it's more efficient-- FAR more efficient--
When a sub sounds as great as an IDMAX from a company as reputable as IMAGE DYNAMICS-- I tend to prefer it over a company like JL, who has never truly been a subwoofer pioneer in terms of sheer output and sq--
JL audio has always had my respect as one of the most well rounded companies for car audio on the planet-- BUT, I have more respect for Image D. as they have truly pioneered many things. The horn component set, the carbon fiber woofer, the best sq subs of their time (idq) -- they don't even build amps--
JL impedance switching amps are ahead of their time, and they're very good compared to any company out there.
I have personally owned 3 10w6's -- (the old school subs) -- and must say they are amazing woofers-- are there better ones for the money? Absolutely.
The IDMAX 12 will cost less, and outperform a pair of JL 10w6's and
I DON'T NEED TO AUDITION EITHER TO TELL YOU THAT
Now there's a statement that will start a flame war.
Flame on brotha, I've been there and done that.
I don't need to own both to decide-- 84db sensitivity vs. 94 db-- that's all I need to know--
You're accusing me of basing my opinion on solely the efficiency??? Come on man. Do you really think I'm that stupid??
Let's see--- 10w6 SD = 5^2 x 3.14 = ~75 in^2 with an 84~ db 1w/1m -- coupling factor and in car response brings the theoretical output to a response curve in the low 90 db's range at best (ported) -- 1000w ~ will bring the 87/88 db sensitivity to a theoretical 117/118 db @ 1000 w rms input -- add enclosure response that may be in the low 90's, maybe a little better, you will get around 125 to 130 db enclosure response (in-car) @1000w rms input--
IDMAX= 93db sensitivity-- enclosure response -- around 100 db in car response-- power handling nearly identical to a pair of w6's -- about 800 ~ 1000 rms-- an in car response at around 135 db should be achieved--
You're forgetting that regardless of the drivers combined SD, their combined sensitivity sets them back still around 7+ db -- so you'll still need theoretically 4 times the power (which will smoke the JL's long before they ever catch up) to match the output of the IDMAX--
You own one dude-- come on--
The BL of the IDMAX is less than the BL of the 10w6 with a much larger sd, plus a 24.9 mm XMAX -- with a 2.5" peak to peak motor excursion capability.
The math does it for me -- I'll bet the cost of an IDMAX 12 it will outperform the pair of JL's --
It's just a better engineered product.
I fully appreciate JL's engineering, please don't get me wrong, I just like to highlight the one's that should be highlighted.
Why did you buy an IDMAX???
03-23-07, 12:38 PM
#11
Lexus Test Driver
http://www.carsound.com/review_archive/amps/1500dx.html
There's a review of the MTX 1500dx, along with an output chart from the link at the bottom of the page--
It's one bad mother--
There's a review of the MTX 1500dx, along with an output chart from the link at the bottom of the page--
It's one bad mother--
03-23-07, 01:24 PM
#12
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03-23-07, 03:04 PM
#14
Lexus Test Driver
Ummm-- I believe I miscalculated -- WinISD as well as Image Dyn. spec sheet both show the calc to be about 87 for the IDMAX --
My mistake-- (it happens) --
So now we're just down to arguing the benefits of using one driver over using a pair, spending $450 versus spending $700, and using a smallish box vs using a larger box--
Differences in group delay for the pair, vs one sub not needing to match another for one speaks volumes as a benefit--
My mistake-- (it happens) --
So now we're just down to arguing the benefits of using one driver over using a pair, spending $450 versus spending $700, and using a smallish box vs using a larger box--
Differences in group delay for the pair, vs one sub not needing to match another for one speaks volumes as a benefit--
03-23-07, 06:01 PM
#15
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