Percy

Coming soon....

Have to find the time to writeup the LONG post!

You'll be VERY surprised.

Percy

GSteg

iTrader: (15)

I can't wait! I have the older CDA-7990 and the H900 processor right now. Great combo. I hope the new F#1 will blow away my setup. That'll give me a reason to upgrade

88supramki

that F#1 status stuff is top notch right there. I work at a dealer and even I won't spend that much for their stuff

Percy

The writeup...

Over the past few years there have been a few legendary Head Units. McIntosh MX406, McIntosh MX4000, Clarion DRX9255, Alpine 7900, Sony XESZ50, Sony XESP1, Pioneer ODR and a few others. Most of these were good for their time. Others have diminished after a few years due to availability, but quietly slipped into legend status.

Some of these head units had developed a character...some were described as "smooth", others as "warm". Some even "detailed".

Surprisingly enough, the most expensive head units (ala Alpine F#1 Status .. PXIH990 processor and HU) weren't as good sounding as the MX406, or even the C90.

SAY WHAT?!?!?

There is a scientific explanation to this, and it's not based on "golden ears". I recently had a chance to audition the new Alpine F#1 Status over at a local dealer. Had some of the test CDs that I use with me. Even had the unit auto tune itself for the room enviroment. Here I was, listening to the 2600 dollar PXIH990 and the 2400 dollar HU that controls the processor. I had another friend with me (she has very good ears...among other things! ) and she was almost as disappointed as I was. Too clinical. Very shallow. I could even put the line out from the processor straight into a pair of Sennheiser HD580s and the music lacked rhythm, body and all the good stuff.

Then went to a C90 and did the same thing, at another location. More depth, more body, better dynamics.

How can this be?!?!? The Alpine is SUPPOSED to be the mother of all source units. And 4 times the cost.

Go further down my HU list. McIntosh MX406. A warm sounding unit, not as open or detailed as the C90. But arguably better sounding than the old and new generations of the Alpine F#1 Status.

Here's the main reason. The OP AMPS. This is what many of the competitors in the soundoff arena aren't paying attention to. Most are worried about the reputation of the HU before they plug them in. But how many have actually taken a pair of very good headphones and actually LISTENED to the pre amp output?

What you're paying for the F#1 is the name and the technology that goes into it. You can put all the technology and then stop it up with a crappy op amp. The op amp is the last thing the signal sees before bumping it to a usable signal to the actual outboard power amplifier.

Best sounding so far that I've listened to ...
Sony C90. This uses the Analog Devices OP97. Then they changed it to the OP275, also from Analog Devices. HINT...Analog makes even better op amps for audio...and they're a plug in mod. Very easy to do and it gives a competitor the "unfair advantage".

Second tier on the list.
McIntosh MX406 / MX4000 / Clarion DRX9255. They all use the OP2604 from Burr Brown. Very smooth sounding, though at a loss of resolution.

Third on the list.
Alpine F#1 Status...old and new generations. These use the NE5532/NE5534 "general" audio op amp. Clinical, thin sounding. Yes guys and gals, you can literally change out this critical chip and it's going to make QUITE a difference in the sound QUALITY. And to any Alpine tech or engineer guys...I ask you to remember what happened when you "argued" with me on the parts quality back in '99. (you still didn't listen...literally!)

Remember that this quick test was on SOUND QUALITY, not on any gimmicks, displays or hype. (yes retro...I'm waving my whip stick.)

Quite a while ago I did a home CD test on a Denon 560 changer vs a Sony 777ES SACD player, both playing CD sources. It was A/B/A'd tested with a bunch of salespeople in the room. The only thing that was changed out in the Denon player were the op amps. And the Denon kicked ALL of the players, much to the disbelief of all the salespeople. The sony was a 4000 dollar unit. The denon was at 500 dollars. And about 2 dollars worth in op amps. A 2 dollar mod whips a 4000 dollar player. Not bad.

Do a search on one of the popular op amps out there. The AD825. Analog Devices. For those that are handy, you can build yourself an adapter to fit into your HU.

http://www.octave-electronics.com/lcaudio/ad825.shtml

There are other op amps out there, but I suggest you get a schematic of your HU. I've even modded out my home receiver with OP275's (there were NE5532s before) and it made QUITE a difference. Just be good with a soldering iron.

Also, one of the better names in audio, Tru Technology, asked me which op amps he should be using in his amplifiers. (John at Tru Tech). I told him which ones and he promptly used the ones I suggested, thus the upgraded op amp stage. Means quite a bit when a top end amplifier company is listening...literally.

SO, no magic or hype. As always, my experiements are REPEATABLE. Just hook up some headphones and LISTEN. You may be very surprised at what you do and don't hear!

As for Alpine...CMON GUYS. WAKE UP.

Percy

onihc

iTrader: (1)

I should of purchased the Sony C90 when I had the chance. Someone was selling for $600 new. It may have been a "hot" item.

FLIPPU

AWESOME Writeup Percy..Thanks for the input.
I will soon redo my LS430 set-up using the TRU C7 and T03 4.150..it should make for a very enjoyable experience.

Question..Can I upgrade the OP AMPS on my ML Head unit?

Thanks
Mike

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

I agree completely with Percy on those op-amps, having played around in the lab with many of these. The NE5532's suck, they're way overrated, they're OK for audio, but NOT audiophile quality. I refuse to use them anymore. They tend to have a lot of offset voltage that needs to be nulled out, and mismatched between the 2 channels to boot. They really shouldn't be used anymore for audio. The OP275's are good - good enough for me to keep a tube of them around in my house in case I want to do a swap-out. The newer Analog Devices stuff may be even better. Manufacturers also use a lot of NJR op-amps, which are better than the NE5532, but I'm not convinced they're as good as the Analog Devices stuff (I doubt it), but they're cheaper.

I really think that the rest of the analog output stage makes a difference as well - gusto with respect to power supply current goes a long way to giving the output stage some *****, otherwise even with good op-amps it can sound thin and weak, even though it's just a preamp stage. It's just freaking amazing how these guys can get all the complex digital stuff right, and then screw up the simple little output stage. Pisses me off.

Jerry

Percy

Wouldn't be worth it. My guess is that ML epoxied everything to the board...very thick layer. The ML amp that I opened up from a GS had about 1/4 inch of the thick epoxy all over the components.

Percy

engin_ear

iTrader: (1)

I guess it helps Lexus pass that interior salt spray test.
Bahahahahahaha!

Percy

Just picked up the xdp4000x today. Nearly 10 year old technology for CHEAP, or at least relatively compared to the original MSRP. Modifications to follow for the internals.

Yes, this will be, in terms of SQ, a F#1 Status (both generations) as well as XES (both generations) killer. Easily.

High end home systems don't impress me anymore, even the ones from Mark Levinson.

The Godfather

iTrader: (1)

Man, I really wanna redo my system in my 3G GS, but the integrated everything is scaring me off.... I know I can pop the CD changer and pop a DIN HU in there but I'm wondering if I can retain all of the sounds from the nav, voice command and stuff from the factory unit above.

Percy

Highly doubt it. They make it that way so you don't mess around with it. Very custom stuff needed to work on pretty much any Lexus.

The ML stuff just has too many reliability issues. I hear of burnt out amps, blown subs, failing speakers...not good.