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New steup up and running. But I'm not getting the kick I expected.

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Old 05-27-07, 10:52 AM
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labtec
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Default New steup up and running. But I'm not getting the kick I expected.

I just installed a hifonics 1206d with a tc-2000 in a 1.2 cu/ft sealed box. Everything is up and running. However, when I turn it up, I can barely feel it. I feel my stock sub sounded better. I have the tc-2000 wired at 1.5ohm. So far, it doesn't seem like it was worth the trouble. I expected to feel the bass in front seats w/o a problem. What am I doing wrong??

Some pics:





thx
Old 05-27-07, 10:55 AM
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MJHSC400
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well--

What are you sending the amp for low level signal?

That will undoubtedly be the problem.

I wouldn't mount the amp on top of the box like that either-- vibration--
Old 05-27-07, 11:00 AM
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jayyyy
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what kind of car is that in? a gs?
Old 05-27-07, 11:40 AM
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labtec
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My car is a 1992 SC400 with Nak.

I hooked up a line out converter to the two gray stock subwoofer wires:



Hear are the setting on my amp:



thx
Old 05-27-07, 01:02 PM
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MJHSC400
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Turn your gain UP-- Toward 0.2v -- You may also be able to adjust the converter itself--

Turn it up until it's balanced with the rest of the system--

And turn your xover to about 9~10 o clock --

And you need to remove your stock sub too--

Old 05-27-07, 04:04 PM
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labtec
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wow, I should have removed the stock sub when I had the chance. oh well, i guess the seats are coming out again tommr.

sorry, but is the xover the "low pass dial"

also- does the (-) and (+) on the LOC matter? there were two gray wires from the sub and I used the solid one as a (-).

thanks
Old 05-27-07, 04:45 PM
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MJHSC400
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If you have a multimeter you can read the output at the speaker level output and tell if your wiring is right-- or it may be marked on the oe sub as well... Just put your red probe on the wire you think is positive and the black probe on the other while playing music at a medium level-- if it in fact does read positive voltage-- you did it right-- if not you'll need to just switch the phase on your amp phase setting-- or you can just as easily rewire it correctly--

If you have them reversed you can easily look at the sub while it's playing and tell if it's "pulling inward" instead of pushing outward when it plays a note or a kick drum sound-- (you're looking for it to kick outward-- if it's not you're phase is reversed and you have a phase **** that can be reversed if it needs to be-- you would just turn it all the way to 180 deg instead of 0 deg) --


The low pass is the xover-- about 90hz is around 9 o clock or 9:30 ish --

You may need to tweak the bass boost a little also to get the right sound you like--

Worry most about the gain and phase for now though--
Old 05-27-07, 06:18 PM
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MJHSC400
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Tell me a little more about your box and how it's built-- is it totally sealed???

You might want to go ahead and use all of the screw locations on the sub also-- I noticed you skipped a few--

Also-- how is your power wire setup as well as your ground?? As in wire size/length--

Just wondering how you set it all up--

Also-- the TC2000 is only 4ohm or dual 4ohm-- so if you got the dual which I hope you did, it's at 2ohm--
Old 05-27-07, 09:34 PM
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labtec
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The box is totally sealed, I used silicon on all edges inside the box. I used 3/4 mdf all around and doubled up in the front to make it stronger. I also filled it with pollyfill from an old pillow.


I didn't use all the screws because I'm going to take it out soon to carpet the box.

The power and ground are both 4 gauge. 18 feet power wire and 3 feet ground.

I bought the dual voice tc2k. I wired it to 1.5ohm according to tc sounds.
Old 05-27-07, 10:15 PM
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MJHSC400
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You've got a little extra space in there to add some bracing-- I'd go for some panel length braces 3/4 x 2.5 or so-- just glued is fine (wood glue is much stronger than silicone btw) -- will add huge strength if ran down the center of each panel - That box needs to be strong with that much power--

Looks good -- Are you going to route the edges? -- I've actually sanded edges round when i didn't have a router-- orbital palm sanders will do it -- takes a while-- 80 grit cuts pretty quick though--

I just think it's odd/different that it's marketed as a 4 or d4 coil then shown in the wiring config as 3ohm coils-- most 4 ohm are actually 3.4 so it's more accurate to say-- it's just rare to see manufacturers actually say that--

Hope you get it workin right --
Old 05-28-07, 06:29 AM
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Robert_J
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Originally Posted by MJHSC400
I wouldn't mount the amp on top of the box like that either-- vibration--
This box shouldn't vibrate more than any other. Plus car amps are built for a rougher environment than home amps. If it were a problem companies like SVS, Hsu, Aerial Acoustics, Velodyne, JL Audio, Krell, etc wouldn't build home subs with their amps built into the encosure. They would be opening themselves up to numerous warranty issues over failed amps.

Labtec,
Confirm the polarity on each set of terminals by using a 9v battery. + on the battery to the red terminal and - on the battery to the black terminal. The cone should move out slightly. There have been a few issues of subs built with reversed terminals. This is a quick and easy check to find out.

Use all of the bolt holes as well as closed cell foam weatherstipping. You have to have a air tight seal and you are not getting it right now.

Finally, use the link from ICIX to set the gains on your amp. You may also want to look at the link on how bass boost affects your amp.

-Robert
Old 05-28-07, 09:26 AM
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MJHSC400
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Even better way to check polarity-- slipped my mind--

On amps vibrating-- I had a RF 225.2 that would make some nasty noises when mounted to a sub so I've always avoided it since. Maybe it was just the noise I didn't like--

You should check the polarity of the oe sub with the battery as well--
Old 05-28-07, 11:25 AM
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labtec
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thanks guys

so far... adjusting the gain has made a big difference. i also mounted the sub using all screws and placed it so its facing the trunk (made a big difference). I didn't have time to remove the stock sub yet, it might have to wait till next weekend.

the icix link is great, i have to pick up some blank cds and i'll try setting the amp using a 50Hz tone i downloaded.

i'll also have to pick up some closed cell foam weatherstipping. it'll have to wait until i carpet the box.

Last edited by labtec; 05-28-07 at 11:49 AM.
Old 05-28-07, 12:49 PM
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MJHSC400
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Phase, gain, eq, and location all play a huge role in how it will sound--

That sub should absolutely pound in your car when facing the back--

You remove that stock sub and you'll know what loud is --

A hint for removing the stock sub--

The mounting bracket with the tabs for the grille needs to stay in place after the sub is removed of course--

BUT- the ring on top of the sub with a foam strip helps reduce rattle, and I destroyed my stock sub to remove the ring so I could re-mount the ring on top of the bracket-- Notice how the grille seems to sit flush against the ring in the pic-- I chose to do this just to ensure the grille wouldn't rattle or vibrate--

ALSO-- this will keep unwanted air from vibrating your rear deck panel as much-- as it routes the air through the grille and into the cabin isolating air movement largely away from the cavity b/t the panel and the rear deck itself--

Just a tip-



Finally - if you hear any distortion thru your sub-- your gain is probably set wrong-- 9/10 times-- It wouldn't hurt to take it to a shop and have it set-- It's very hard to explain how to "hear" a clipped signal-- you just get used to hearing it over time --

You can either set it by ear or use an o-scope-- by ear takes practice, o-scope takes expensive tools and knowledge most don't have--

I like a nice and flat balanced sound at all frequencies so it sounds like you're there when you listen to jazz or classical music-- that way when you play the stuff so often MARKETED as music, it will sound CORRECT, (notice I didn't say GOOD) -- sorry -- I have a hang-up about unintelligent music-- Makes me raise an eyebrow and squint my left eye-- hope you understand--

Last edited by MJHSC400; 05-28-07 at 12:55 PM.
Old 05-28-07, 01:47 PM
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labtec
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sounds 'correct', lol.

I probably won't get a chance to remove the sub until next weekend but I had one questions: I downloaded a 50hz sound and played it in my car. I used a multimeter to set the gain using the ICIX link Robert recommended. Turned my gain all the way up to 0.2v and the multimeter is only reading 45 (450watts). Isn't this kinda low since my sub is wired at 1.5ohm? I'm thinking...should I use both (-)'s and both (+)'s from the amp to hook up the sub???

Last edited by labtec; 05-28-07 at 01:54 PM.


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