mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

the correct way is the way I built mine... extremely simple - follow the wiring schematic and pick the right values, if for some reason, it doesn't sound the way you want it to, vary values a little...

its EXTREMELY easy... great article - it shows exactly how to make a set of ultra highend passive crossovers... ever seen the passives that come with a mid level set of speakers - extremely low end, crap quality stuff - anything would be an improvement...

Robert_J

That way doesn't take into account the difference in sensitivity between drivers, baffle step diffraction, woofer cone breakup or the driver's impedance at the crossover point.

Yes, I'm listening to a pair of low end JBL's right now. A coil on the woofer and a cap on the tweeter. I've also built speakers using textbook crossovers like you describe. Then I decided to build some designs from Wayne and others. I've built the Dayton II and Dayton III, I've heard the Dayton Home Theater MT and I have parts to build 7 Dayton Home Theater MTM's. The difference between textbook and custom crossovers is like night and day. If you don't have the time, equipment or interest in building crossovers the right way there are hundreds of designs on the web, hundreds of kits to buy with instructions and even design services available.

Cars are more difficult to integrate and they are never going to be a perfect listening environment. But I'd much rather have a proven design from someone like Madisound than use the textbook method.

-Robert

mitsuguy

iTrader: (2)

sure it does... anyone with half a brain can look at the charts Madisound gives you with each speaker and pick the correct crossover points and if needed, the right resistance values....

your ultra simple coil and cap method is only a 6 dB filter, mine are 12 dB... I chose not to use any resistors as when overlaying the tweeter and midbass's resistance charts (in addition to looking at their sensitivities), they matched quite well - part of the reason I bought the pair I did...

a "custom crossover" is nothing more than a crossover matched to the tweeter and midbass that you are using - you can go to extreme lengths to model one using software and such, but in the real world, what sounds best to your ears is ultimately what you want to listen to... pick some points that look good and adjust from there... it's not rocket science - even that article you mentioned says it's easy - I'm sorry you don't comprehend how easy it really is... all crossovers are designed the same way - the same wiring diagrams and such, it's just the values that vary on the coils, caps and resistors...

(I've been playing the car audio game for about 12 years, and have competed in numerous competitions in the mid to late 90s - this stuff is second nature for me)

I might add that in judging car audio, a car that "soounds better" will achieve a higher score than one with a flatter frequency response...

Robert_J

You are going beyond the basic textbook crossover with your description of how you design and build. Some people don't know that this data is available to them or if they do, don't know how to interpret it. They just randomly pick crossover points based on the size of a woofer of how low a tweeter will play and design it based on the nominal resistance of the driver. This is a car forum first, not an audio forum. I base my postings on the assumption that the reader is a beginner in the audio world. If they pick up some info here and want to continue their knowledge, there are dozens of audio forums that they can visit. You obviously have experience with this and should post in the audio section more often. We can all learn something.

The crossover software that is mentioned earlier is always a starting point and you should tweak it to satisfy your listening preference. I started with textbook crossovers but I still consider myself a rookie when going with custom crossovers and this is after 20 years of this hobby. I also try to pick up every little bit of information from some of the hard core DIY guys like Jon Marsh and Thomas W from HT Guide. These guys have been building speakers since the '60s.

And I agree that it is not rocket science. It's acoustical physics and basic electrical engineering. Throw in a few years of experience as well as a good ear and anyone can design a speaker. But some people don't have the time or inclination to take on a project like this. That's why there's published designs and kits available.

-Robert

Suneet

When I finally decide upon the new tweets I'll be using, I'll be using a digital processor (probably the Alpine H701) to set up crossover points.. in this case, do I need to take into account the resistances of the drivers at those frequency points? It shouldn't matter becuase all the processing is being done digitally.. but perhaps to find the ideal x-over points it may help?

Where should I start to learn more about this? I have a computer science degree with a minor in EE, so I just need to be pointed in the right direction to continue the learning

Robert_J

You will need to look at the measured frequency response of your drivers to determine where to cross them over. You want to cross them below the frequency where they start to break up. Also, a good ear is an asset. Listen to both car installs and some high-end home systems. Find the sound that you like and try to reproduce it.

As for learning, Audio Xpress has a large selection of magazines and books. I was a subscriber to their magazine Speaker Builder from 1987 until it merged with their electronics mag and became Audio Xpress mag (around 2000). There's a lot of information in the back issues.

-Robert

noop

I purchased an SL55 a few months ago that had Morel Elates installed. When I first listened to them I wanted to rip them out and throw in the 2 sets of boston acoustics z6's I have. Now, a buddy of mine (an installer) tweaked with the EQ thats built in to the Eclipse 5495 and made them sound 10x better than they were before. He said I was nuts if I was going to switch them with the boston z6's. Also I am going back monday, he is going to mess with the crossovers and amp and hopefully in his words he is "going to wake them up even more".

To be honest I had never heard of Morels before I purchased the car.

Suneet

Allright guys.. I started the door panel modifications. Check this thread out

http://sr1.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=295977

88supramki

hmmmmmm, interesting start. let's see how it finishes up

Suneet

Reviving this thread...

still not done with the door panels, but I will be this week... I made a diagram of my setup