spykedawg

baba, good to hear that you know about adire and such brands...we need more audiophiles on this forum. but in terms of es3, go easy on em, he's new to car audio.

Percy

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BabaBooey
[B]

What are you talking about? There's no such thing as SQ or SPL amps (unless you want to count class D's). Unless you start clipping the amps significantly, you won't be able to tell the difference between 500 Pyramid watts and 500 McIntosh amps.

***
I USED to think that way also! Try this experiement. Get a high end head unit, high end interconnects, some good speaker cable and some Dynaudio speakers. A/B listen to the amps OBJECTIVELY. Swap out ONLY the amps. You can even do this blindfolded and should still be able to pick out the difference. Reason? Signal to noise. Channel seperation. Power supply design. Op amps and filter caps within the amp itself. The quality of parts used. All of this will make a difference. Still don't believe me? Check out a 3rd party source. Car Stereo Review, Ken C. Pohlman/Hammer labs. Look at the OBJECTIVE measurements. KCP has no reason to tarnish his image as being OBJECTIVE and he backs it up with the numbers of Hammer Labs, his OWN testing lab.

Ok..sure. In theory, an amp is an amp is an amp. It's designed IN THEORY to not introduce any artifacts of it's own nor color the sound in any way. But do they? You bet they do! Even the Krell FPB650's introduce their own signature, though it's very very slight. Same thing with the high end Mark Levinson's, both of which are for home audio. Car audio is still based on the same principle, though their line voltages and a few other things are different.

I used to run Alpine amps. MRVF300 and MRVF400. Get a good signal source and compare them with McIntosh. They couldn't even hold a candle compared to the Mc's. Now if you were talking some cheapo speakers (pioneer/best buy specials), muddy sounding sub (la sound?) and some lamp cord for speaker wire then you won't really be able to hear the difference. Now if you have some very revealing speakers, good interconnects, high end head unit with a good s/n ratio and channel sep numbers as well as some very low distortion figures throughout the chain, then it will make a very large difference.

Give it a shot sometime. Though the amps may not be labeled as purely SQ or SPL (the McIntosh MC443M and MCC602TM does some NICE SPL, though overkill!), some will perform much better in overall sound quality. There is a difference!

Percy

Mean Gene

B - Since U're new to the CL family ( nice to have another Cajun around!! ) I'll try to explain that concept as it's used on this Board. We have 2 distinct styles of systems around here - the SQ & the SPL. Those that compete ( like myself ) have a hybrid system complete with switches that shutdown the bass amp for the SPL competition & other switches to kill the soundstage amps for the pressure tests. We've kinda broken things up into recommendations based along that direction. For example, Kicker & RF are typically thought of as the SPL brands ( along with others ) & McIntosh ( & perhaps Phoenix & a/d/s ) seems to rule as the better amps for SQ. I'm running RF Power amps for now & have done quite well but as U know, down here in USAC territory SPL carries more weight. U'll find a LOT of brand loyalty here between DynAudio ( Percy ); Focal ( myself ); & ID ( Retro & Spyke ) when it gets around to speaker choices. Just jump right in here with your input as well - personally, I'm not familiar with Adire but am open for a test listen. I've gotta side with Percy as far as amps - the signal to noise ratio is important ( especailly on the RTA ) & the internal components help set the standards ( Bipolar transistors versus MOSFETS, etc ). THD isn't as critical since we as humans can't normally detect anything below 1%. I totally agree with ya on the Class D amps - great for SPL but since they don't play high frequencies ( due to the slower switching MOSFETS ) they bite as frontstage amps. Gonna be in town for the Sugar Bowl? I've managed to get tickets for it & if job constraints allow plan to attend. Maybe we can meet down in the Big Easy!!

BabaBooey

Sorry Percy, but I don't exactly have the money to just go out and get some Dynaudios, much less a bunch of high end equipment (and I definitely wouldn't spend money on "high end" interconnects), so I won't be able to try your experiment. But I have a/b'd lower end amps with pretty high end amps (a 6 year old POS Sony amp that is seriously beat up vs. an flawless Arc Audio 2100) and when putting out similar power, several friends and I couldn't tell the difference between the two.

Mean Gene, I'm probably going to end up running either an Adire Brahma or an IDMAX, so I'll let you know when I get my setup together and start going to some comps so that you can get a listen if you want. As for mids and highs, I'll be running CD1Pro horns with about 40 watts per side and some Digital Designs 6.5's getting 300 watts per side. I'm definitely going for a combination of SQ and SPL with the speaker setup as the horns can get absurdly loud while remaining crystal clear, and the DD's are one of the few 6.5's that can take that much power and play below 70hz without bottoming out. I would have liked to go with some 8's, but I'm not really interested in modding the doors.

Anyway, I wish I could go to the Sugar Bowl and support LSU (I'm a freshman their majoring in electrical engineering), but the first is my Bday so I'll be too busy spending the first half of the day with my family and the second half getting violently drunk with my friends.

LexDriver18

My father was born and raised in Lousiana!! He also attended LSU!!

So all I have to say is...

GO TIGERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Have fun G-Money!!