sparky3

Hello all; I've been driving Toyota Celica's for a few years, and just last week I got my first *real* car, a '98 GS 300 Cinnabar. Needless to say I can never, ever, go back. First, I'd like to say that I'm more of a self-taught type of guy. I have installed car stereo's since around 1989 (when I started driving) and I've always had pretty good luck. I was the guy in high school all my "friends" would want to have them build boxes or wire up amplifiers for them.

My Celica had the following:
JVC SH-99 in dash Mp3 (loved it)
Alpine passive 7-band EQ with separate sub out
Coustic XM-3 X-over (Remember these?)
Kicker 'el cheapo 12" 's (came out of a SS120 Kicker box, paid $100 or so for the box)
California Profile 600 Amp (2 channel) AND
"Going out of business SUN TV" 4 channel Phoenix gold amp.

My objective was to have a good sounding system for under $1000, which I had.

I would also like to add that I've gone back and re-read everyone's posts since just about the beginning before I'm posting this. Percy, retrodrive and Mene Gene (among others) have provided a great deal of information. THank you!

Having said that, I wanted this time around to be different. I'm now 28, and make just enough money that I'm still on a tight budget, but I didn't want to have to fool with installing the stereo myself. I fully realized that I had bargain speakers and amps (at least the California Profile) but it always sounded GREAT in my Celica. I know, I know. It's a hatch.

I went around to a few local car audio installation shops in Columbus, Ohio. 2 shops recommended a ported box firing up through the (removed) factory 10", and one recommended sealed. I chose the ported box for a few reasons, mainly because if anything I love every genre of music, sans country. A typical CD-R of mine might start of with some Billie Holiday or Gene Austin ("She's funny that way -1920's stuff) and end up with some Parliment or James Brown, and even some Red Hot Chili Peppers or Ice Cube. I was under the impression a ported box could be tuned and had potential to sound good for all types of music (Percy, I'm more of a SQ guy, but considering some of my sources are mp3 rips are of 60 year old music, it doesn't make sense for me to fork over thousands of dollars for perfect staging, center channel, et al. Heck, most of the old stuff if not all was recording in mono anyway.

I had everything except for the LLC's, and got several quotes for complete stereo installations. My objective was to use the factory head unit and mid's/high's for now, remove the factory 2 ohm 10" and have the box built and carpeted with the amps/wiring hidden on the back of the box. You guys may think this foolish or useless, but I've always liked my coustic XM-3, and I had it mounted with some 90 degree angled RCA's in my center console. It's nice to be able to tune everything without going back to the trunk.

Sounds fair, right? Rough estimates were all around $500-$600 to run all wires and build the box and carpet it. That's fine. I went to pick the car up today, and I'll be damned; the bass was deeper and richer when the trunk was opened. Also, they said the front 2 channels on the Phoenix Gold kept cutting out, and they wired up everything L/R stereo. I hated not only how the bass sounded, but also how the mid's/high's sounded. It seemed like the mid's were starved for power. Fine, I said. They recommended a Soundstream Rubicon 10 A (?) 4 channel for the mid's & high's. They also said that the port coming out of the 12"s wasn't fully sealed up to the back of the rear deck; there was about a 1" gap from the top of the port to the rear deck. They said come back after work and they'd have the new amp wired up and the box fixed.

Round 2:
That little Soundstream Amp kicks butt. My midrange/vocals/high's never sounded better. The bass is a bit better, but it still sucks (IMO). I'm not looking for a ghetto bass-thumper, but it doesn't hit very well at all. I threw in Beastie Boys' Paul's Boutique as sort of a "bass test" and there were no outstanding qualities of the bass. The tight snap of a snare drum wasn't tight; low end wasn't low, and even mid-level to low-end sucked. There is significant rattle from the rear deck, and I plan to Dynamat it ASAP, but I'm still not sure what's next. I understand that the subwoofers and sub amp are low par, but how could something sound so crisp and tight now sound weak and muffled THAT much?

What should I upgrade first, the amp or subs? Or should I go with a different style of box? The woofer(s) are facing each other at an angle, and again, the big "tuned" port is firing through the rear deck.

I know this isn't anyone's dream setup, but I'm on a budget. Most of my money goes on old 1940's comic books.


Thanks for anyone's opinions/thoughts or comments.


Shawn


www.goldcomics.com

CSHFLW

my system in the GSis nice but for over 1200 watts to my subs alone and $2000 of processers it's still not that tight or acurate....I desided the GS is a bad platform for a system...alot trunk space though

sparky3

Has anyone had any success with mounting speakers along the rear deck? I think 3 10" should fit along there quite nicely, and they could run free air. I hate to butcher the car though, even though I'm planning on driving it for several years.

I have had other cars with trunks that the sound was much better! What's the benefit of facing the woofers towards the trunk? I'd think that'd give it a "boomy" feel, but considering how well these cars are put together, it's the bass response just bouncing around in your trunk with no real exit?

Shawn

Erick G

CSHFLW

I wouldnt blame the GS
i'd blame your subs for nothing being tight and accurate

get some real subs if you want good sounding subs

Velodyne or A/D/S and a few others brands will rock in tight accurate bass

I love my A/D/S very very musical

here's an old pic of my setup



trunk is getting glassed right now along with tv's - dvd - processor being installed

CSHFLW

Solo's are not the most accruate subs in the world...plus they are 15's....but with the high quality of amps and tunning equipment they should sound great....plus it's a sealed box....

Not a fan of ADS stuff....

CSHFLW

plus velodyne doesn't make car subs anymore.....

Get some real subs? What the hell does that mean? Solos are made wonderfully well unlike many other subs with tiny magnets and glued surounds....

retrodrive

Seriously, GS has nothing to do with your sound. Listen to Focal/Velodyne and even IDQ subs and you will see the difference in sound. Also you need to find out the best box volume to use.

CSHFLW

I love how every one thinks all these companies are good like focal, velodyne, dynaudio, etc..and has NEVER heard them....

All those companies are for sound quality, not loud, pounding bass.....I just want a good mix of both....

And the GS does rattle way too much....and it is sound deaded

BTW....the correct box volume is specified by the manufacturer and my box is to those numbers....

sparky3

I just wanted some input as to reasons for poor sound. I'm a bit frustrated by the "buy top of the line and you won't have problems" mentality; if I had $1000 to waste on a single sub I'd have $10,000 to have a shop build everything from the ground up! Please understand that not everyone who drives a Lexus can afford a brand new one. I budgeted around $25,000 for a late model car, I didn't want to pay $23,000 for a brand new Grand Prix or Monte Carlo; I preferred to have a 3-4 year old Lexus. Having said that, all I'm asking for is various subwoofer configurations and people's results. That's all.
We all realize that high end woofers are better. I just feel I'm nowhere near where I was with the same equipment in another car.

Percy

Sparky,

It all depends on your goals. Not everyone here is after an ultimate sq rig and not everyone is after a 170db spl ear exploder. Do you have a picture of the sub box? It could possibly be the box configuration that is giving you problems.

CSHFLW,

Velodyne? Dynaudio? Never heard of them.

Retro has the right idea. Listen to them before you buy. If the shop has a money back guarantee (get it in writing) then it's less of a risk involved. Some shops around here let you bolt the gear on, listen and return if you don't like.

Percy

sparky3

I don't have a picture of it yet, but it's pretty easy to describe. It's just 2 12" 's facing upwards (angled towards one another somewhat) in a rectangular box, with a medium size port (~4 inch diameter) that butts up against the removed 10" factory opening. It is tight up against the opening and sealed with silicone. The woofers are placed in sort of a sub-layer level, with the dividing layer housing the port. One couldn't open the trunk, reach towards the top of the box and actually feel the woofer, all they'd feel is the port and the carpted top of the box.

I'm glad you read this thread Percy, you have my utmost respect. By the way, with your knowledge, is this what you do for a living?

Shawn

Erick G

Well solo's are far from being an sq sub.. more like boom boom
and with your complaint about tight/accurate..
seems like you'd be happy with an SQ sub

or maybe even 2 12's

my car doesnt rattle at all..
did you use any dynamat or similar products?

CSHFLW

"my car doesnt rattle at all..
did you use any dynamat or similar products?"

Are you serious?? One of the worse rattiling cars I have ever heard! and I had owned/heard many!

When the truck was striped I sprayed the trunk with dampener and added mild amounts of dynomat to the sides and to the bottom of the deck lid....I figured that the GS was pretty solid, nope...

Erick G

I dynamat the whole trunk and it sounds good
although im not going after all that SPL Bass

im happy with my 2 12's
more then enuff low end for my taste

the only rattle i occasionaly hear is the license plate.

Percy

Sparky,

The box seems fine. It's not a bandpass and from what I gather, there's no cancellation going on since you have pretty much everything sealed up. Excellent! Usually the first thing to go wrong is sound cancellation and it makes the final output sound awful.

Change the subs! Box, from description, is SOLID.

I'm a tech advisor for the local college. Waking up to lots of 18 to 25 year old young women is a *rough* job! Plus with the photography skills, I get to photograph them - and most don't mind at all. (More like a fashion portfolio thing). In spare time I'm a part time professional sports photographer. Both are fun to do!

Percy