Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

It's not just an amp, so if you want the system to work properly, you need more than just a 5 channel amp to do it. The ML system is, in industry terms, a "Logic 7" system, meaning it uses advanced system processing and equalization to achieve the sound. Amazing how processing the living daylights out of a signal can make even cheap and flimsy speakers sound good, isn't it? This is why the adage that "the best speaker in a bad install will sound worse than the cheap speaker in a good one" is true.

All that being said, the processing is done internal to the amp, so it's more DSP/Amp than just amp. To replicate it, you'll need to gather the signal together and split it up again. It can be done with several aftermarket pieces, including the RF 360, the AudioControl LC6 or LC8, and the JL Cleansweep. Each has it's own merits and foibles. If I were going to upgrade, and I'm still contemplating it, I'm thinking the AC piece is how I would go because I want to use their DEQ and I prefer to stick with one manufacturer. Additionally, I have had good experiences with their units before and would recommend them to friends.

I think Shawn had the right idea - replace everything after the screen and you'll be amazed at how good the car can sound. I like the ML system for stock, but it's nothing compared to the aftermarket systems I've installed for others and used in my own vehicles. When the crispness in a voice comes through and you'd never heard it before - that's spine tingling.

Big Mack

Percy

Alex,

More than likely the speakers aren't built any better. The speakers themselves aren't made very well with all the burnouts that I've read and the users that I've gotten feedback from.

The DSP system is utilized an Analog Devices SHARC processor. That's about the only thing really good about it. It's quite a bit of patchwork trying to get a poor speaker sound like a good one. In this case, lots of processing "band aids". Sure, you can equalize the heck out of a piece of equipment, but at the end of the day, the durability, longevity, etc are sacrificed. All this for the bottom line. And to satisfy the marketing gurus out there at Lexus trying to promote a product as "high end" with fluffy marketing reviews.

The long term usually says whether or not the piece will be any good.

lexstocker

Just wondering if you ended up replacing the amp with another ML or if you ended up with a different setup. I think my amp is just about to die, getting all kinds of crazy pop's, feedback and whatnot coming from the stereo when it's turned on. I also have a GS430 with nav but a 2002 and nav works fine so far.

Percy

The longevity of the ML amps have alot to be desired. There's quite a bit of heat generated and all they have to cool it with is a small 25mm fan. Plus it's mounted in a location that doesn't promote good air flow.

A recipe for disaster.

GS4_Fiend

iTrader: (22)

I got the ML on my GS430. I dropped in a rockford fosgate 4 channel amp connected to the ML amp. Works fine. Doesn't pop or make any noise. Yes, I did throw out the cheapy ML speakers and put in Alpines. Sounds more manly.

NiteOwl

Not quite sure if I am having the exact same problems, but this seemed like a good place to start.

I have an 03GS430 with the ML and a VAIS unit to allow XM via emulation.

My symptom is related to the volume. I am beginning to lose control of it. It gets stuck wherever it is (high or low) and can't be reset until you turn the car off. Happens on all sources - so not sure the VAIS is the culprit, but wanted to mention that as a possibility. Does not happen all the time, but seems like the frequency is increasing. Please don't tell me the whole system is gonna take a dump...

Percy - anyone - ideas?????????????

Thanks in advance.

Percy

Does it happen without the VAIS? I would suggest returning the system to as stock as possible. If it still does it, you know the ML amp is probably going to go south.

NiteOwl

The VAIS is only used in CD mode - but the symptoms still occur on both AM/FM radio as well. I had the VAIS installed by Tweeter, who is no longer with us. I tried to find the unit once, and I am not even sure where it is. I have another stereo guy that is really good who I could take it to.

So this is most likely an amp problem? Sounds like this is somewhat typical. Reading down thread seems to be a bit conflicting as to the easiest solution - does it make sense to replace the amp yet still go through it to get the DSP portion or completely gut it? I would much prefer the least expensive route, as times are tough.

Thanks again...

Percy

Completely gut it. Sounds like the main DSP unit is starting to go bad from all the glitches that you're having. Fairly common, unfortunately, for ML equipped systems.

Unfortunately it's not a matter of "if" the ML will fail, it's "when".

milellie11

iTrader: (5)

bump.

I'm having this problem now. At first, i had no control over my audio volume and i thought it was the audio button. Today, i get in the car and the radio won't turn on. Nav Screen is on though. I have an 02 GS430 with 99,000 miles. Boy, is this car really starting to let me down. Lexus build quality and reliability? lol, i'm starting question that. Or maybe they skimped on the GS430. Just in the past month, it seems like as soon as i hit 99,000 miles, i got a CEL and car was running sluggish (dealer said i needed a new catalytic converter) then 2 weeks later the car is back to normal. My rear door lock actuator is out. My drivers side window will not go up (bad master window switch), now it looks like the amp is gone bad. On top of that, the car can't hold an alignment for more than a month(who knows what the problem could be reading all of the threads about how control arms,bushings,ball joints,tie rods etc. need to be replaced on the GS) and the steering is terrible, ride is bouncy and feels like crap going over bumps. Yet, i've had lexus mechanics and independent mechanics say the suspension is fine. All of this will be alot of money to replace this stuff. And i have not hit 100,000 miles yet!!!
Yeah, the car has never left me stranded, but it's not really fun to drive anymore and these electrical problems lead me to believe an overrated statement of reliability. I know Lexus owners always dog BMW, Mercedes and Audi for electrical problems, well guess what, we got them too!! Yeah, the german cars break, but at least they're fun to drive while they work. lol

fendawg8

I haven't found a definitive answer for this yet so I thought I'd post.

I have a 2004 GX 470 with ML sound. The stereo is kicking off and on. Navigation stays on. Rear DVD still plays, but no sound. The first time it went out I thought I may have just blown a fuse but then it kicked back on, loudly I might ad. Since then it comes and goes.

Is it the fan on the amp? Or the amp all together? I need to get this resolved before I take the kiddos to the mountains. DVD player is crucial for our existence.

Kirk

Percy

Seems like the amp. They're fairly notorious for going bad.

Big Mack

iTrader: (1)

Okay, is there a particular reason you go into every problem thread and complain about your car for the past month? Perhaps you got a car that wasn't maintained and now is reflecting the treatment. No car lasts forever, and if you replace the parts and check them on a regular basis for wear/tear before they do more damage, you will have fewer problems.

Complaint #2

Complaint #3

Complaint #4

Complaint #5

Complaint #6

2 through 5 are the same thing, too, so you're going overboard.

I'm not a total defender. The amp problems are, unfortunately, typical of these cars, but that's also the fault of the manufacturer of the amps. Keeping in mind that the reliability is more based on functionality of the car (not leaving you stranded, in other words), you yourself admitted that it's not done that. Lexus reliability, especially when yours was new, was very good. It's a 9 year old car, though, and you have to expect a few parts will need replacing in 100K - even if you don't drive it like you stole it. As was stated in the other thread(s) that you've been in, replace the parts and you'll be able to ride for quite some time. As for your complaint about the car having too much power and no 'middle' where you can comfortably cruise, I have to disagree. You can very easily set the cruise control and the car will drive smoothly and get you there in total comfort. As for the problems with MB/BMW, the thing about most of them is that it's a consistent reliability problem with their mechanicals. The Lexus amp problem is not really from something Lexus did other than buying a cheap component from another company. When I read some of the problems with MB/BMW and talk with friends who own them (and Audi's and VW's), the problems are myriad, expensive, AND are caused by inferior OEM product designs.

I think it's time to maybe purchase a different car, replace the parts, or do something other than come on and complain about it. I realize that we all need to vent from time to time, but now is your call to action.

I think if you went and replaced what is listed in #2 complaint, you'd probably love the car again. The bushings and what not are not extremely expensive, and if you have a mechanic (you've said you do), it shouldn't cost you a tremendous amount.

Big Mack

milellie11

iTrader: (5)

Whoa man, who pissed in your oatmeal? I am simply voicing my frustrations with MY car. Are you employed by Toyota/Lexus or something to disect my post and do damage control to their image? Yo, i know Lexus is a good car, i'm just saying that it's not "perfect" reliability wise as the professed acclaim. No car is. What i'm speaking about is the electronics etc. You think Lexus is the only car that won't leave you stranded for 200k miles? Dude, stop being a homer! You have some american cars and german cars that run 300k just like a Lexus would with only oil changes and transmission maintenance. Yeah, those American and German cars have some electrical glitches, but as i just pointed out, so does Lexus. Most drivers on here either has or will need to replace their door lock actuators, Mark Levinson amps, window swtiches, ball joints etc. before 120K miles. And of course, as well testified by all GS drivers on here, if you want to continue driving without sudden sloppy handling,inner tire wear, clunking noises and inability to keep alignments, you'll have to replace with aftermarket bushings, or spend over 1500 on stock arms from Lexus AT or Before 100K miles! Hey, i'm not trying to make Lexus look bad, i'm just telling my experience with my car.

And neglected or not, the above mentioned things WILL fail whether you bought the car brand new or used.

Thanks for all of your help though. I guess the time it took you to dig up my old posts to "expose" me, could have been time for you to point me to other threads which provides solutions to my problems. That's what it means to contribute to a forum.

Blueshark

So better ventilation in that area would help it longevity ? What about adding fans outside the amplifier if it can be done.