Jl audio 12" w6v2 or 10"w7
12-13-08, 01:01 PM
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Jl audio 12" w6v2 or 10"w7
What' up guys...I need some opinions/advice. I'm currently running one 12" JL Audio W6V2 powered by a JL Audio 500/1 amp. I love the output so far, but I was thinking of replacing my W6 with a 10" W7. I hoping the W7 will add some more bass. I am only thinking of the 10" W7 because I am too cheap to buy the JL Audio 1000/1 amp to push a 12" W7. Thanks.
12-14-08, 09:35 AM
#3
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Well, the pure physics tell you it wont be as loud at all. The 12w6 has ~500 cm^2 and the 10w7 has ~330, so that's 330/530= 60% of the cone area, and the efficiency is 84db for the 10 and 86 for the 12, nearly 3db down, or half as loud with the same power, closer to 2db down but you get the idea, so 62% x 2/3 = 40% as loud with the same power, that means it will come within 4db of its output but will be noticeably less.
The 12w6 has a higher sensitivity to power, and a larger surface area. That means there are two factors at play in the 12's advantage.
I don't think the 10 would even get as loud until you gave it 1000w rms, then it may do about the same output as the 12 with 500w. There are other subs/amps you can get that will satisfy your need of sq and sheer output without spending $800....
The facts are that if one sub has twice the cone area than another (a 12 has nearly 2x the area the 10 does), the smaller one will need twice the power to get equally loud, given they have the same sensitivity, BUT, if the the smaller sub also has a lower sensitivity (spl), then it could take 4x the power to get just as loud.
I would get a 1000/1 or even better yet an ED nine.1 to give that 12w6 sub closer to the power it can actually handle if you want to hear loud.
That w6 will do well with about 750w to 1000w rms before it starts running out of breath and you can get a very highly rated ED nine.1 for about $250 to $300 depending on whether you buy it new or used.
Also, the alternative is to buy the ED special package deal with their 13av.2 that will walk all over a 12w6 and at LEAST equal a 10w7 and includes the nine.1 that does 1200w rms @ 1ohm, or 900 rms at 2 ohm, or like 500w @ 4ohm....
A very good amp and a sub that people are talking about from a factory direct company that is doing some awesome engineering and doing their sales online using word of mouth for advert. instead of sky high prices at shops.
This set is usually $700 but ED is running them on special right now for $450 to stimulate their company's growth and get the word out, but their prices wont stay this low for very long. The company is very similar to TC sounds which is now Audiopulse (well known for their LMS subs), and once upon a time you could get a TC sub for $170 that was very similar to a newer JL w6 that normally sells for more like $400. NOW, their prices are much higher because people have caught on and are buying their subs no matter what the price, and they are STILL cheaper than JL by a few hundred bucks and will outperform them as well if you get one priced the same dollar value.
I am very seriously considering getting the amp and sub package myself and putting my old kappa perfect and 1500dx (1000rms) in my girls es300.
Watch this. And this.
Check out this deal here-- ED 13av.2 + nine.1 Sub/amp promo combo for $450..
13av.2 specs
tasty!
13av2 sub reviews--
ED nine.1 amp reviews
ED's audio forum
The 12w6 has a higher sensitivity to power, and a larger surface area. That means there are two factors at play in the 12's advantage.
I don't think the 10 would even get as loud until you gave it 1000w rms, then it may do about the same output as the 12 with 500w. There are other subs/amps you can get that will satisfy your need of sq and sheer output without spending $800....
The facts are that if one sub has twice the cone area than another (a 12 has nearly 2x the area the 10 does), the smaller one will need twice the power to get equally loud, given they have the same sensitivity, BUT, if the the smaller sub also has a lower sensitivity (spl), then it could take 4x the power to get just as loud.
I would get a 1000/1 or even better yet an ED nine.1 to give that 12w6 sub closer to the power it can actually handle if you want to hear loud.
That w6 will do well with about 750w to 1000w rms before it starts running out of breath and you can get a very highly rated ED nine.1 for about $250 to $300 depending on whether you buy it new or used.
Also, the alternative is to buy the ED special package deal with their 13av.2 that will walk all over a 12w6 and at LEAST equal a 10w7 and includes the nine.1 that does 1200w rms @ 1ohm, or 900 rms at 2 ohm, or like 500w @ 4ohm....
A very good amp and a sub that people are talking about from a factory direct company that is doing some awesome engineering and doing their sales online using word of mouth for advert. instead of sky high prices at shops.
This set is usually $700 but ED is running them on special right now for $450 to stimulate their company's growth and get the word out, but their prices wont stay this low for very long. The company is very similar to TC sounds which is now Audiopulse (well known for their LMS subs), and once upon a time you could get a TC sub for $170 that was very similar to a newer JL w6 that normally sells for more like $400. NOW, their prices are much higher because people have caught on and are buying their subs no matter what the price, and they are STILL cheaper than JL by a few hundred bucks and will outperform them as well if you get one priced the same dollar value.
I am very seriously considering getting the amp and sub package myself and putting my old kappa perfect and 1500dx (1000rms) in my girls es300.
Watch this. And this.
Check out this deal here-- ED 13av.2 + nine.1 Sub/amp promo combo for $450..
13av.2 specs
tasty!13av2 sub reviews--
ED nine.1 amp reviews
ED's audio forum
Last edited by MJHSC400; 12-14-08 at 09:59 AM.
12-15-08, 11:15 AM
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The company is very similar to TC sounds which is now Audiopulse (well known for their LMS subs), and once upon a time you could get a TC sub for $170 that was very similar to a newer JL w6 that normally sells for more like $400. NOW, their prices are much higher because people have caught on and are buying their subs no matter what the price, and they are STILL cheaper than JL by a few hundred bucks and will outperform them as well if you get one priced the same dollar value.
As for your comparison between TC subs and the JL, have you disassembled both and compared voice coils and motor structures? Until you do, your statement is just a guess. And I have 3HP, 3HP neo, TC9 (2 versions), TC7 and TC2+ motors and used them in building 5 subs (4 recone kits and one from scratch).
I am in total agreement that JL is not the be-all end-all of car audio that everyone thinks it is. I like to deal with the small companies where you can communicate with the owner/engineer to find out their goals when creating different products.
-Robert
12-16-08, 09:42 AM
#5
Lexus Test Driver
Well, my comparison between TC and ED is that they are more direct seller oriented companies with great products that compete with higher end stuff at a lesser end user cost.
As far as comparing the JL W7 to the 13av.2, I am comparing efficiency, motor force, cone area (the ED sub wins) and linear XMAX (wins again by a slim margin).... Those things in mind, with the ED sub using a 75mm voicecoil (common to most pro-level stadium type subwoofers and mids) it's just got a high thermal threshhold and I would be willing to bet it would out-spl the W7...
If it didnt and came up 1db short, which I seriously doubt, and bet it would be 2db louder in sheer output, you still wouldnt lose, knowing you've saved a large amt. of money and got a product very similar in quality.
You have money to buy those subs, I wish I did, but I do research on what people claim their experience with the product is, and ED and TC (which you actually told me about) both have very reputable names and TC even built Eclipse subs at one time which I do have first hand time with...
I compare engineering specs and have been around pro-audio most of my life so I'm not just spittin on squares hopin they land right. I do however respect your opinion Mr. Robert J, you know that though.
I just make educated assessments based on the physical data the company has to report based on CE regulations, so it's accurate most of the time. After all, those same specs are what WinISD use to model enclosures, so they must have some sound validity.
My point is that is someone wanted some loud stuff, stick with more cone area and a medium power level (600-1000w) with a good enclosure vs. buying another sub that's smaller and less sensitive just because it's marketed as "louder".... When it actually wouldnt be in this case, the fella just needs more like 750-1000w.
I think the 12w3v2 was rated at 350w rms and even JL (awesome company but not the only good one) says not to go over that much power, BUT people regularly give them 500w and they absolutely pound for the money and sound great.
So in realiity a 12w3v2 may get louder with that same amp (500/1) than the 12w6 does, especially if you use a ported setup, and the 10w7 would definitely be a step down in output and wouldnt really improve sq at all either. That would be the cheaper of the choices rather than buying a 1000/1 or a comparable amp, but that's not the only 1000w amp out there, and there are many that are even better for the money (Zapco/Xtant/Memphis= all at least equal in quality but the first two are known to be some of the best).....
I'm sure you'll like whatever you get though, but that combo package listed up there is about as cheap as you can get for something that good... That is a combo that will rattle your eyeballs and undoubtedly get louder than that 12w6 with the 500/1...
You could also sell your JL stuff and recoup most if not all of the money you spent on the ED combo...
As far as comparing the JL W7 to the 13av.2, I am comparing efficiency, motor force, cone area (the ED sub wins) and linear XMAX (wins again by a slim margin).... Those things in mind, with the ED sub using a 75mm voicecoil (common to most pro-level stadium type subwoofers and mids) it's just got a high thermal threshhold and I would be willing to bet it would out-spl the W7...
If it didnt and came up 1db short, which I seriously doubt, and bet it would be 2db louder in sheer output, you still wouldnt lose, knowing you've saved a large amt. of money and got a product very similar in quality.
You have money to buy those subs, I wish I did, but I do research on what people claim their experience with the product is, and ED and TC (which you actually told me about) both have very reputable names and TC even built Eclipse subs at one time which I do have first hand time with...
I compare engineering specs and have been around pro-audio most of my life so I'm not just spittin on squares hopin they land right. I do however respect your opinion Mr. Robert J, you know that though.
I just make educated assessments based on the physical data the company has to report based on CE regulations, so it's accurate most of the time. After all, those same specs are what WinISD use to model enclosures, so they must have some sound validity.
My point is that is someone wanted some loud stuff, stick with more cone area and a medium power level (600-1000w) with a good enclosure vs. buying another sub that's smaller and less sensitive just because it's marketed as "louder".... When it actually wouldnt be in this case, the fella just needs more like 750-1000w.
I think the 12w3v2 was rated at 350w rms and even JL (awesome company but not the only good one) says not to go over that much power, BUT people regularly give them 500w and they absolutely pound for the money and sound great.
So in realiity a 12w3v2 may get louder with that same amp (500/1) than the 12w6 does, especially if you use a ported setup, and the 10w7 would definitely be a step down in output and wouldnt really improve sq at all either. That would be the cheaper of the choices rather than buying a 1000/1 or a comparable amp, but that's not the only 1000w amp out there, and there are many that are even better for the money (Zapco/Xtant/Memphis= all at least equal in quality but the first two are known to be some of the best).....
I'm sure you'll like whatever you get though, but that combo package listed up there is about as cheap as you can get for something that good... That is a combo that will rattle your eyeballs and undoubtedly get louder than that 12w6 with the 500/1...
You could also sell your JL stuff and recoup most if not all of the money you spent on the ED combo...
12-17-08, 10:44 PM
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Thanks
Thanks for the inputs guys...I ended up purchasing an 10" W7 w/JL Audio specific enclosure. The store I bought it from was going out of business and got everything for $250 out the door. The install dude tweaked my amp, and it sounds 1,000 times better than my previous set-up. Thanks again.
12-18-08, 06:17 AM
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$250 for a W7!!! I would have maxed out a credit card buying up stuff at those prices. You could have easily doubled your money on fleabay.
MJH,
Thanks for your explanation. I see that you are comparing items based on specs. I wish more people would do that and not buy based on brand name alone.
-Robert
MJH,
Thanks for your explanation. I see that you are comparing items based on specs. I wish more people would do that and not buy based on brand name alone.
-Robert
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12-18-08, 07:35 AM
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good call on just going for the w7
i would have chimmed in sooner but didn't notice your question, i had a pair of 12w3's running off a jl 1000/1. after blowing them apart i switched to one 10w7. the 10w7 to me sounds better and my friends all claim its "more bass than your two 12s!".
i would have chimmed in sooner but didn't notice your question, i had a pair of 12w3's running off a jl 1000/1. after blowing them apart i switched to one 10w7. the 10w7 to me sounds better and my friends all claim its "more bass than your two 12s!".
12-22-08, 05:26 PM
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Wow 250 is a great deal on the w7. I just got a 8w7 in HO box used for 320 and I thought I was getting a good deal! I've heard the 10s can take more power than the 500/1. All I have going to my 8 is a jl 500/1 and it hits pretty hard!
01-01-09, 12:01 PM
#12
Thanks for the inputs guys...I ended up purchasing an 10" W7 w/JL Audio specific enclosure. The store I bought it from was going out of business and got everything for $250 out the door. The install dude tweaked my amp, and it sounds 1,000 times better than my previous set-up. Thanks again.
