Argelius

I've been lurking about, researching the HS 250h. I'm a bit of a gadget nut, so the bells and whistles sell me on a car as much as other more pedestrian things (handling, etc).

I've had 2 Lexi - a First Gen RX (forget the year) and a 2007 GS. I remember when I got the GS I was surprised at how little (if at all) the Nav system had changed from the RX (as well at the persistence of the cassette player and lack of an iPod/mp3 port).

Anyway, based on the pics I've seen so far of the Nav in the HS (and the 2010 RX which I assume to be identical), it looks like essentially the same Nav system, without the high-resolution graphics, bird's eye/3D views Ive seen in Acuras, Infinitis, BMWs.

I see that an iPod interface is standard now, but based on a video walk-through (2010 RX) posted on YouTube, it looks clunky and limited and much less capable than I have in my 2year old Audi). (And it would appear Lexus' legal team continues to lock down the whole system while in motion other than the usual tedious voice commands).

Admittedly the new mouse controller looks slick, so kudos to Lexus for that.

Anyway, I'm curious about other's feelings about this. While Lexus definitely innovates elsewhere, their GUI and Nav system seems to have languished, with only slight tweaks over the years.

encore888

If slicker graphics are what you're looking for, then certainly rival systems are more impressive for the US market. IMO the previous Gen V system with its black/blue menus was more high-tech looking. The current Gen VI system is more spartan looking with its gray/simple background, only the icons are more cool looking.

That said, this is apparently by design. Some things to consider:

- Lexus has stated specifically that the new system is supposed to be simplistic in look, and with no significant change from the prior version, to ease the transition to Remote Touch.

- Lexus Japan vehicles offer 3D, more unique graphics, but they chose not to bring them here IIRC. Probably because they think Lexus' US customer base is less tech savvy.

- The screens on the new RX and HS are high-res, but what they focus on is simplicity, and feature content. The new Remote Touch system, which can be taken to a higher level with Lexus Enform / Safety Connect, has numerous features that rival systems don't have, from the stocks/sports scores, Google maps, doppler weather, Lexus Insider messages, etc. And they are the first to add casual voice commands, with the only close rival being Microsoft's Sync interface.

- As for the lockout, this is the same story. Lexus Europe finally relented last year and unlocked their NAVI systems. Who knows if Lexus USA's lawyers will be more willing.

- iPod integration could be better according to some, but it works fine for me. Yes part of it is related to the lockout.

In the end, I'd like to see Lexus ramp up their interface and find a way to allow at least passenger inputs while driving. However, any interface changes are likely to wait until the next generation of Remote Touch, because they have stated that they want a minimal learning curve and that's why the menu layout and system has been retained and even simplified. It's to keep Lexus' reputation for user-friendliness, while still being able to add innovative new features.

Argelius

Thanks, encore. Some excellent points. My only issue with your thoughts is that if they are going to introduce a completely new controller, it seems that would be the time to introduce a new interface to go along with it -- make the interface take total advantage of the new controller, rather than restrict the controller to the functions of the OLD interface.

Here's to hoping Lexus USA will loosen up its motion lockouts. Given that other manufacturers have seemingly been able to do it*, Lexus just needs to get with the program!

(*In my Audi A4, with their MMI controller, after passing a "WARNING" screen all functions are available in both the Nav system and the iPod/music system

encore888

I too thought that Remote Touch would be a good opportunity to make a more radically updated interface. But Lexus sources in Japan have stated that they wanted to make the transition easier for touchscreen users, so they deliberately kept to the same layout, buttons etc. With the larger and larger screens, to my view they look a bit too simple, especially when upsized to the HS 250h screen. For most of us tech-heads, we would be fine with a newer interface, but apparently that will wait till the next gen (although I suspect the simplicity will still be there, but fancier graphics and functions probably will be added). I'd like also to see a choice of NAVI voices like Acura, and possibly building graphics like Audi...

Argelius

I don't understand the need to gently "transition" people to the new interface controller. When people buy new cars expect things to be different.

Moreover, given that we now live in the world filled with iPhones and computers and iPods, people expect more from their GUIs -- especially in a luxury vehicle. I can't believe Lexus is falling behind the Germans.

Amskeptic

I think the less attention we pay to dubious toys and the more attention paid to actual driving, particularly amongst all the other distracted drivers out there, could only be a good thing. I admit being a little irritable as my 30 year old VW bus was totalled in a head-on collision last week in Colorado . . . by a 19 year-old distracted texter.
Colin

mikesm

If you want to see better, and more functional electronics packages, you don't have to look far. Toyota seem to be more concerned about look than functionality, which the start of the problem.

On the low end, the ford focus comes with SYNC, which as far as I can tell, has better integration and navigation system effectiveness than the current Gen VI system. And the new software update being pushed to sync users will enable the sync system to access the Internet through a bluetooth equipped cell phone, and be able pull down live traffic updates for navifgation system use, as well as accessing more current data for POI's etc... Plus great media playback features equipped with A2DP streaming.

In the mid range, the acura NAV systems don't have motion lockouts and has A2DP streaming and a simple but effective touchscreen UI that works well. I am not a fan of mice equivalents in cars.

On the high end, look at the new Jaguar XJ. Software defined dashboard graphics, 3 channel bluetooth streaming to headsets to enablemultiple video screen playback, as well as bluetooth streaming to the media center. And a really neat dual view center display that allows a passenger to watch movies while the driver sees NAV data.

Toyota is behind the curve in every class. Maybe GM is still lagging behind, but to have a more superior nav/entertainment system in a ford focus than a lexus LS is criminal.

Every vehicle I have ever owned has been a toyota (or lexus), but when I replace my GS next year, it will almost certainly be with a different make because of this issue.

Argelius

VERY well stated, mikesm. Couldn't agree with you more.

mikesm

The sad fact about this is that noone at Toyota seems to care. Eventually things will catch up them. You can't keep demanding a price premium and be this far behind in the electronics.

encore888

Plaudits to the Microsoft/Ford Sync system and its capabilities...along with the Lexus Enform system, for voice commands, the VoiceBox technologies voice recognition on the new RX is pretty good, and it's the first to have casual voice recog in the US...it's going to be on most 2010 Lexus models, including the LS...we've also learned that the LS is getting a software dashboard graphics system, with configurable gauges/night vision etc., and Bluetooth streaming audio. So they have been making updates, just not as fast as many tech observers would like.

mikesm

For the amount of money we pay for Lexus models, they should not be playing catching up to a Ford Focus - we expect leadership from Toyota, at least as far as the Lexus badge is concerned.

Voice recognition is great, but I can tell you that there are a lot of people who don't feel comfortable talking to the car - my wife for one. She loves her acura GPS and uses even for small trips, but I can't get her to try using the VR system in the her MDX. It's odd to me, but I know many people who feel the same way about it.

Bluetooth streaming audio? It's about time. Where is the info on the graphics system gauges, etc...? I haven't heard or seen any writeups on this? Is it just the LS or are they looking at other models too?

Oh, and are they going to let me use the touchscreen when driving like the ford and honda systems do? It would be nice to have a system influenced more by engineers than lawyers...

Don't get me wrong, as I said, I am a lifelong Toyota customer, and would like to continue to be, but this is a sore point with me and I suspect many others. I need more facts if I am going to change my mindset.

Argelius

This is the one thing that totally frosted my a** about my last Lexus (GSh) -- the fact that everything gets locked down as soon as the car starts AND you still have to click "I Agree" on the disclaimer screen. My current Audi has a warning screen, but gives you full access to the Nav system and iPod controls (as have BMWs I've owned). So evidently the German lawyers aren't as uptight as Lexus'.

mikesm

Hey, after all, Lexus is more concerned about safety than the Germans. It's not just the lock out on their nav system, it's even how they design the fasteners on their floor mats that keeps them from slipping.

Batmobile

iTrader: (2)

lexus has the best nav system available out... compared to infiniti, bmw, benz...from the sharp touch screen to it's functionality... hands down imo

mikesm

Have you played with the sync system or used the nav in an acura? You wouldn't say that if you tried these.