Help! Is250 mark levingson conversion
12-30-09, 08:57 PM
#16
Yea thinking about all that work or the amount of $$$ to have a shop do it...i think ill just change the tweeter and 6.5...is there a diy for that. I need to remove the door then figure out how to open up that little tweeter dome to fit the aftermarket one in the same spot. I want it to look stock.
12-30-09, 09:03 PM
#17
Moderator - Electronics Forum
I'd just drop it out completely if you're listening to music. The sound stage is QUITE narrow on the ML series on all the cars that I've listened to, with the exception of the 1st gen ML in the LS430 - that's when they were really good.
The dyns have such a wide soundstage that you don't have to "plant" your head in any particular location. The ML is a different story. It's fairly obvious to me that they had no real design consideration when it came to the lobing or sound dispersion of the ML speakers, despite their market hype.
Dyns - expect the sound stage ALONE to open up some 400 percent or better. ML had to use LOTS of speakers since their dispersion is narrow. Dyns - they got it right with simplicity. As for detail, dynamics, resolution, etc..the Dyns have them and will trounce on the ML speakers any day.
Or better yet, see how much room is under the center speaker if you can get at it. Perhaps custom mount a 3 inch midrange in there somehow? All depends on the room under the speaker.
You'll have to take it out of the casing...and be creative, but this might work.
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotec/md142.php
The dyns have such a wide soundstage that you don't have to "plant" your head in any particular location. The ML is a different story. It's fairly obvious to me that they had no real design consideration when it came to the lobing or sound dispersion of the ML speakers, despite their market hype.
Dyns - expect the sound stage ALONE to open up some 400 percent or better. ML had to use LOTS of speakers since their dispersion is narrow. Dyns - they got it right with simplicity. As for detail, dynamics, resolution, etc..the Dyns have them and will trounce on the ML speakers any day.
Or better yet, see how much room is under the center speaker if you can get at it. Perhaps custom mount a 3 inch midrange in there somehow? All depends on the room under the speaker.
You'll have to take it out of the casing...and be creative, but this might work.
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/auto/esotec/md142.php
12-31-09, 08:56 AM
#20
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Thanks for the advice Percy. I am a true novice at this , so let me lay out the game plan as I understand it. Please correct anything I have wrong.
Phase 1:[LIST][*]Drop the center 2.5" midrange out of the system completely. [*]Questions:[*]Should I do this by cutting the wire? [*]If yes, under the dash or at the amp? [*]Can I do this now or should I wait until I upgrade my ML speakers?[*]Should I cut the wires to the 2.5" midranges in the front door at the same time or keep them until I replace the speakers?
Phase 2:[LIST][*]Replace the 6.5" woofers and 1.0" tweeters in the front doors with Dyn Esotec speakers. You recommend the MW162GT 6.5" mid-base drivers and MD102 1.1" tweeters. [*]Cut the wires to the mids if I did not in phase 1.
Phase 3:
Do I need one or do I need to replace some or all of the rear speakers as well?
Thanks,
Mike
Phase 1:[LIST][*]Drop the center 2.5" midrange out of the system completely. [*]Questions:[*]Should I do this by cutting the wire? [*]If yes, under the dash or at the amp? [*]Can I do this now or should I wait until I upgrade my ML speakers?[*]Should I cut the wires to the 2.5" midranges in the front door at the same time or keep them until I replace the speakers?
Phase 2:[LIST][*]Replace the 6.5" woofers and 1.0" tweeters in the front doors with Dyn Esotec speakers. You recommend the MW162GT 6.5" mid-base drivers and MD102 1.1" tweeters. [*]Cut the wires to the mids if I did not in phase 1.
Phase 3:
Do I need one or do I need to replace some or all of the rear speakers as well?
Thanks,
Mike
12-31-09, 09:35 AM
#21
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Thanks for the advice Percy. I am a true novice at this , so let me lay out the game plan as I understand it. Please correct anything I have wrong.
Phase 1:[LIST][*]Drop the center 2.5" midrange out of the system completely. [*]Questions:[*]Should I do this by cutting the wire? [*]If yes, under the dash or at the amp?
--amp is easier if you can find the wire. But at the speaker is recommended.--
[*]Can I do this now or should I wait until I upgrade my ML speakers?
--wait until you upgrade--
[*]Should I cut the wires to the 2.5" midranges in the front door at the same time or keep them until I replace the speakers?
--wait until you have the dyn speakers--
Phase 2:[LIST][*]Replace the 6.5" woofers and 1.0" tweeters in the front doors with Dyn Esotec speakers. You recommend the MW162GT 6.5" mid-base drivers and MD102 1.1" tweeters. [*]Cut the wires to the mids if I did not in phase 1.
Phase 3:
Do I need one or do I need to replace some or all of the rear speakers as well?
---I'd replace them out to keep the dyn characteristics. You'll find that the dyns have a much wider soundstage and will provide a more convincing "fill" with much less effort.---
Thanks,
Mike
Phase 1:[LIST][*]Drop the center 2.5" midrange out of the system completely. [*]Questions:[*]Should I do this by cutting the wire? [*]If yes, under the dash or at the amp?
--amp is easier if you can find the wire. But at the speaker is recommended.--
[*]Can I do this now or should I wait until I upgrade my ML speakers?
--wait until you upgrade--
[*]Should I cut the wires to the 2.5" midranges in the front door at the same time or keep them until I replace the speakers?
--wait until you have the dyn speakers--
Phase 2:[LIST][*]Replace the 6.5" woofers and 1.0" tweeters in the front doors with Dyn Esotec speakers. You recommend the MW162GT 6.5" mid-base drivers and MD102 1.1" tweeters. [*]Cut the wires to the mids if I did not in phase 1.
Phase 3:
Do I need one or do I need to replace some or all of the rear speakers as well?
---I'd replace them out to keep the dyn characteristics. You'll find that the dyns have a much wider soundstage and will provide a more convincing "fill" with much less effort.---
Thanks,
Mike
12-31-09, 06:44 PM
#23
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Thanks Percy,
I am going to do your swap out & drop out recommendation.
I will start by installing the Dyns in the front doors and drop the 3 Mark Levinson 2.5" mid's located in the dash and front doors.
I will try and document everything I do so I can post the photos when I finish.
Mike (New Jersey)
I am going to do your swap out & drop out recommendation.
I will start by installing the Dyns in the front doors and drop the 3 Mark Levinson 2.5" mid's located in the dash and front doors.
I will try and document everything I do so I can post the photos when I finish.
Mike (New Jersey)
01-01-10, 04:45 PM
#24
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Percy,
I am shopping for the Dyn speakers and I have a new question for you.
I am finding the average price is $229 each for the Esotec MW162GTs and $299 for a pair of MD102s. So the cost to do the front doors would be around $757. I also found a Esotec 242GT kit that includes 2 MW162GTs, 2 MD102s, plus Crossovers for $789. Getting the crossovers for an extra $30 looks like a good deal if I may need them. My question - is there any chance I may need them or would I just be wasting the $30?
Thanks,
Mike
I am shopping for the Dyn speakers and I have a new question for you.
I am finding the average price is $229 each for the Esotec MW162GTs and $299 for a pair of MD102s. So the cost to do the front doors would be around $757. I also found a Esotec 242GT kit that includes 2 MW162GTs, 2 MD102s, plus Crossovers for $789. Getting the crossovers for an extra $30 looks like a good deal if I may need them. My question - is there any chance I may need them or would I just be wasting the $30?
Thanks,
Mike
01-01-10, 07:56 PM
#25
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Percy,
I am shopping for the Dyn speakers and I have a new question for you.
I am finding the average price is $229 each for the Esotec MW162GTs and $299 for a pair of MD102s. So the cost to do the front doors would be around $757. I also found a Esotec 242GT kit that includes 2 MW162GTs, 2 MD102s, plus Crossovers for $789. Getting the crossovers for an extra $30 looks like a good deal if I may need them. My question - is there any chance I may need them or would I just be wasting the $30?
Thanks,
Mike
I am shopping for the Dyn speakers and I have a new question for you.
I am finding the average price is $229 each for the Esotec MW162GTs and $299 for a pair of MD102s. So the cost to do the front doors would be around $757. I also found a Esotec 242GT kit that includes 2 MW162GTs, 2 MD102s, plus Crossovers for $789. Getting the crossovers for an extra $30 looks like a good deal if I may need them. My question - is there any chance I may need them or would I just be wasting the $30?
Thanks,
Mike
Usually I'd get the parts from Madisound or Michael Percy Audio to make custom crossover networks. A single capacitor alone (hovland musicap) is around 30 bucks and higher, and they're about the size of a mini mag flashlight.
01-01-10, 08:08 PM
#26
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Here's a company that I use for ordering parts for custom xovers. Gives you an idea of the prices. The Solen capacitors are fairly cheap.
But this opens a whole new can of worms!
http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
But this opens a whole new can of worms!
http://www.percyaudio.com/Catalog.pdf
01-01-10, 08:12 PM
#27
Moderator - Electronics Forum
Also, if you have room, check out the Deflex / Spectra Dynamics panels on page 20 of the catalog. I use these in my GS and it helps out the sound immensely. Rather than the speaker firing on the door metal (backwave), it hits on the damping panels. These are by far the best that I've seen and used. Well worth the effort.
Alot of people will sound insulate their cars, but do nothing about controlling the backwave of the speaker. It really should be the other way around.
Alot of people will sound insulate their cars, but do nothing about controlling the backwave of the speaker. It really should be the other way around.
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